rsof: HeavenOnEarth/notes.txt annotate

annotate HeavenOnEarth/notes.txt @ 210:89a7691c3868

Stuart Masters 1, through 28:40

author	Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk>
date	Fri, 25 Jun 2021 23:07:02 +0100
parents	59f4ab0279f7
children	3a9b06e42b40

rev	line source
210 89a7691c3868 Stuart Masters 1, through 28:40 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 209 diff changeset	1 ===================
89a7691c3868 Stuart Masters 1, through 28:40 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 209 diff changeset	2 Part 1 Tim Peat Ashworth _The Earliest Christians_
89a7691c3868 Stuart Masters 1, through 28:40 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 209 diff changeset	3 ===================
89a7691c3868 Stuart Masters 1, through 28:40 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 209 diff changeset	4
89a7691c3868 Stuart Masters 1, through 28:40 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 209 diff changeset	5 Paul as focussed on the transformation of all
206 a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	6 creation, originating in the transformation of ourselves. Finding
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	7 that throughout the NT.
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	8
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	9 "The William": There's a big gap in the New Testament narratives: the
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	10 Romans, the resistance, Masada (73 CE), etc. Why?
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	11
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	12 Stuart M: Tension between the quiet, inward worship practice and the
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	13 noisy, outward, charismatic behaviour it underpinned.
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	14
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	15 The struggle to survive post-Restoration plus the failure of the
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	16 expectation of external transformation put the previous public
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	17 aspect of Quakerism had to be reined in.
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	18
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	19 Barclay gives up on radical equality: God's plan allows for
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	20 different wealth for different people.
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	21
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	22 Branston-Hicks metaphor! Is there still a real labour and birth
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	23 still to come?
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	24
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	25 TPA: But note that in early Christianity the challenge of organisation
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	26 vs. inspiration leads to an emergence of hierarchy, but that never
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	27 happened among Friends...
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	28
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	29 Ben Dandelion: Fox appealing to "30 minutes of silence" in Revelation,
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	30 and the inward communion in Revelation 3:20 (?: "Here I am! I stand at
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	31 the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	32 will come in and eat with that person, and they with me.").
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	33
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	34 Evangelical framing of their situation in the 18th century falls in
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	35 line with the "sometime in the distance" for the expectation of the
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	36 2nd Coming
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	37
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	38 How can we reframe the idea of Heaven on Earth, reinvent the
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	39 tradition, to keep the possibility of transformation alive.
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	40
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	41 How do we make sense of what is essentially a 2nd coming liturgy?
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	42
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	43 If we're waiting for humanity to respond to the opportunity, what
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	44 will it take for that to happen? [TPA: When we realise there is no
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	45 alternative]
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	46
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	47 TPA: What accounts then for the "20% of London and Bristol were
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	48 caught up by Quakerism" in the 1650s? BPD: [The context: finding
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	49 certainity and hope in a catastrophic situation]
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	50
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	51 The contrast of "anyone can be saved" with much of what the other
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	52 churches were saying.
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	53
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	54 ----------TPA video 1----------
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	55
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	56 Luke: "The Spirit of the Lord is upon me" are Jesus's first public
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	57 words. Thereafter we don't hear much about the Spirit, but the
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	58 unspoken sub-text is, wrt Jesus himself: "Look at Jesus: This is what
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	59 the Spirit-led life looks like". The Spirit gives a foretaste of what
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	60 is to come... Paul describes the Apostles as 'Ambassadors of life in
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	61 the Spirit'. Manifesting life in the Spirit as it was in Jesus,
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	62 because they saw it in him. [Note that this makes Paul's claim to
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	63 _be_ and Apostle a bit tenuous]
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	64
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	65 Early Christian communities: spiritual families ('brother' and 'sister')
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	66 Boundaries crossed/erased -- manifestations of the Spirit -- but a
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	67 diversity of gifts. Their community life is manifesting what the
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	68 Spirit is bringing and will bring.
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	69
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	70 Revelation: taking away a veil, now, and coming. Normal way of seeing
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	71 boundaries between e.g. classes is falling away, seeing things in new
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	72 ways. Not a new set of teachings, but a new kind of perception [and
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	73 of living?]
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	74
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	75 Crunch time: how much can you rely on this? First conflict over the
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	76 dietary laws. The Law vs. the new vision. Matthew keeps a strong
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	77 place for the Law, Jesus as a teacher in the Jewish tradition
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	78 (radical, but in the same tradition).
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	79
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	80 Humanity is to be transformed, and continue, in the Spirit, (and so
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	81 the whole of Creation is transformed).
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	82
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	83 Luke has what Eden Grace described: "Creation waits with eager/anxious expectation"
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	84 A sense of bringing to birth, with the attendant hint of anxiety.
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	85 And we have the Spirit as midwife to the change: support with firmness
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	86
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	87 Humanity refashioned not just in, but as, the image ('ikon') of God
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	88
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	89 And this has to begin with a dying of the old form of life.
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	90 "_I_ live no longer, but Christ lives in me" [Paul, somewhere]
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	91
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	92 TPA (responding to SM): There's a _lot_ about newness in the NT, but
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	93 it's almost all about people coming into a new understanding of what
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	94 it is to be human, and not much about seeing the whole of creation in
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	95 a new way, as early Friends would.
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	96
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	97 PBD paraphrasing TPA (responding to BPD): Jesus's resurrection is the
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	98 _beginning_ of the fulfillment of the prophesy of universal
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	99 resurrection: "a justification that something major has begun, if if
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	100 it hasn't been completed".
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	101
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	102 TPA (responding so SM 42:10): Was it a time of constant upheaval,
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	103 heavy oppresive behavious from the occupying Roman forces, etc.? A
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	104 lot of scholarly debate pro and con on this. Ed Saunders (sp?) yes
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	105 life was tough, harvests failed, but Roman rule was by-and-large _not_
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	106 obtrusive, and largely implemented through local intermediaries.
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	107
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	108 BPD: Are the Gospels trying, as they tell it, to reconfigure what
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	109 happened leading up to and in Jesus's crucifixion to fit with new
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	110 sense of delay [in the Kingdom] [that they were experiencing 20/30
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	111 years later]?
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	112
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	113 The coming of the Spirit to the Gentiles, which happened very quickly,
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	114 was "the knock-down argument" that the coming resurrection was for
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	115 _all_ people, not just the (people formerly known as the) Chosen of
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	116 God.
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	117
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	118 ==============Forum discussions==========
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	119 I need to say something in this thread:
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	120 https://moodle.woodbrooke.org.uk/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=14517
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	121 about (FK's reading of) Aquinas's approach to free will and Grace:
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	122 not just us, not just God, but (a mystical union of) both...
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	123
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	124 ---------TPA Video 2-----------
207 1bc6cf72ea70 paused at 23:30 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 206 diff changeset	125 Back to what is coming, that is heaven on earth, is understood as the
1bc6cf72ea70 paused at 23:30 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 206 diff changeset	126 transformation of humankind. So, not so much heaven on earth as
1bc6cf72ea70 paused at 23:30 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 206 diff changeset	127 heaven _in_ earth, 'in earthy stuff'. Ref. Phil. 2:5-8
1bc6cf72ea70 paused at 23:30 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 206 diff changeset	128
1bc6cf72ea70 paused at 23:30 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 206 diff changeset	129 5 In your relationships with one another, have the same mindset as Christ Jesus:
206 a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	130
207 1bc6cf72ea70 paused at 23:30 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 206 diff changeset	131 6 who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God
1bc6cf72ea70 paused at 23:30 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 206 diff changeset	132 something to be used to his own advantage;
1bc6cf72ea70 paused at 23:30 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 206 diff changeset	133
1bc6cf72ea70 paused at 23:30 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 206 diff changeset	134 7 rather, he made himself nothing by taking the very nature of a
1bc6cf72ea70 paused at 23:30 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 206 diff changeset	135 servant, being made in human likeness.
1bc6cf72ea70 paused at 23:30 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 206 diff changeset	136
1bc6cf72ea70 paused at 23:30 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 206 diff changeset	137 8 And being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself by
1bc6cf72ea70 paused at 23:30 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 206 diff changeset	138 becoming obedient to death � even death on a cross!
1bc6cf72ea70 paused at 23:30 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 206 diff changeset	139
1bc6cf72ea70 paused at 23:30 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 206 diff changeset	140 Ref. Genesis -- "made in the image of God" -- we can do this ourselves.
1bc6cf72ea70 paused at 23:30 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 206 diff changeset	141
1bc6cf72ea70 paused at 23:30 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 206 diff changeset	142 Day of Atonement, in the Temple, in Jerusalem: the only day the High
1bc6cf72ea70 paused at 23:30 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 206 diff changeset	143 Priest goes in to the Holy of Holies. Wearing this-day-only
1bc6cf72ea70 paused at 23:30 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 206 diff changeset	144 vestments, with imagery of Creation and the Garden. In the
1bc6cf72ea70 paused at 23:30 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 206 diff changeset	145 forgiveness that follows, the whole of creation is restored to the
1bc6cf72ea70 paused at 23:30 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 206 diff changeset	146 purity of the Garden.
1bc6cf72ea70 paused at 23:30 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 206 diff changeset	147
1bc6cf72ea70 paused at 23:30 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 206 diff changeset	148 The New Testament is usually approached (i.e. we 21st century folk
1bc6cf72ea70 paused at 23:30 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 206 diff changeset	149 were taught it) through and from the perspective of the later
1bc6cf72ea70 paused at 23:30 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 206 diff changeset	150 developments of the Christian Church.
1bc6cf72ea70 paused at 23:30 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 206 diff changeset	151
1bc6cf72ea70 paused at 23:30 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 206 diff changeset	152 And of course that also has influenced how it is translated.
1bc6cf72ea70 paused at 23:30 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 206 diff changeset	153
1bc6cf72ea70 paused at 23:30 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 206 diff changeset	154 As the community/communities of Early Christians grow and stabilise,
1bc6cf72ea70 paused at 23:30 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 206 diff changeset	155 external pressure on them grows, which in turn leads to a need to have
1bc6cf72ea70 paused at 23:30 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 206 diff changeset	156 an account of their origins that's coherent and reliable, which in
1bc6cf72ea70 paused at 23:30 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 206 diff changeset	157 turn leads to downplaying e.g. the early internal frictions, even as
1bc6cf72ea70 paused at 23:30 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 206 diff changeset	158 the New Testament is still being written...
1bc6cf72ea70 paused at 23:30 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 206 diff changeset	159
1bc6cf72ea70 paused at 23:30 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 206 diff changeset	160 At first there's a lot of flexibility, stories, metaphors, adaptations
1bc6cf72ea70 paused at 23:30 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 206 diff changeset	161 of the Hebrew scriptures.
1bc6cf72ea70 paused at 23:30 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 206 diff changeset	162
1bc6cf72ea70 paused at 23:30 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 206 diff changeset	163 But as the community gets more public, more confident, with more
1bc6cf72ea70 paused at 23:30 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 206 diff changeset	164 impact on the wider world, pressure from outside grows, which
1bc6cf72ea70 paused at 23:30 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 206 diff changeset	165 generates pressure within the community as to how they live in the
1bc6cf72ea70 paused at 23:30 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 206 diff changeset	166 world, what must be held on to and what can change to accommodate to
1bc6cf72ea70 paused at 23:30 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 206 diff changeset	167 outside pressure... And so a structure of authority and reliable
1bc6cf72ea70 paused at 23:30 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 206 diff changeset	168 doctrine emerges
1bc6cf72ea70 paused at 23:30 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 206 diff changeset	169
1bc6cf72ea70 paused at 23:30 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 206 diff changeset	170 *Quakers: three keys to unlock what was happening in earliest
1bc6cf72ea70 paused at 23:30 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 206 diff changeset	171 Christianity*
1bc6cf72ea70 paused at 23:30 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 206 diff changeset	172
208 b1f88292d482 end of TPA talking head day 2 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 207 diff changeset	173 1) The living word
b1f88292d482 end of TPA talking head day 2 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 207 diff changeset	174 'This is the word of the Lord'
b1f88292d482 end of TPA talking head day 2 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 207 diff changeset	175 But in the NT, 'the word of the Lord' does _not_ mean Scripture.
b1f88292d482 end of TPA talking head day 2 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 207 diff changeset	176 As in the OT, it is something that comes to _people_, in the OT
b1f88292d482 end of TPA talking head day 2 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 207 diff changeset	177 the prophets, in the NT the new Christians themselves.
210 89a7691c3868 Stuart Masters 1, through 28:40 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 209 diff changeset	178 Ref. Hebrews 8, quoting Jeremiah 31:31-34, several times. This is
208 b1f88292d482 end of TPA talking head day 2 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 207 diff changeset	179 the longest quote of the OT in the NT: "The days are surely coming..."
207 1bc6cf72ea70 paused at 23:30 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 206 diff changeset	180
1bc6cf72ea70 paused at 23:30 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 206 diff changeset	181 31 The days are surely coming, says the Lord, when I will make a
1bc6cf72ea70 paused at 23:30 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 206 diff changeset	182 new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah.
1bc6cf72ea70 paused at 23:30 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 206 diff changeset	183
1bc6cf72ea70 paused at 23:30 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 206 diff changeset	184 32 It will not be like the covenant that I made with their
1bc6cf72ea70 paused at 23:30 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 206 diff changeset	185 ancestors when I took them by the hand to bring them out of the
1bc6cf72ea70 paused at 23:30 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 206 diff changeset	186 land of Egypt�a covenant that they broke, though I was their
1bc6cf72ea70 paused at 23:30 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 206 diff changeset	187 husband, says the Lord.
1bc6cf72ea70 paused at 23:30 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 206 diff changeset	188
1bc6cf72ea70 paused at 23:30 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 206 diff changeset	189 33 But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of
1bc6cf72ea70 paused at 23:30 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 206 diff changeset	190 Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put my law within
1bc6cf72ea70 paused at 23:30 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 206 diff changeset	191 them, and I will write it on their hearts; and I will be their
1bc6cf72ea70 paused at 23:30 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 206 diff changeset	192 God, and they shall be my people.
1bc6cf72ea70 paused at 23:30 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 206 diff changeset	193
1bc6cf72ea70 paused at 23:30 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 206 diff changeset	194 34 No longer shall they teach one another, or say to each other,
1bc6cf72ea70 paused at 23:30 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 206 diff changeset	195 "Know the Lord," for they shall all know me, from the least of
1bc6cf72ea70 paused at 23:30 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 206 diff changeset	196 them to the greatest, says the Lord; for I will forgive their
1bc6cf72ea70 paused at 23:30 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 206 diff changeset	197 iniquity, and remember their sin no more.
1bc6cf72ea70 paused at 23:30 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 206 diff changeset	198 [NRSV https://www.biblestudytools.com/nrs/]
1bc6cf72ea70 paused at 23:30 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 206 diff changeset	199
1bc6cf72ea70 paused at 23:30 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 206 diff changeset	200 Central to early Christian understanding (note reference to a "new
1bc6cf72ea70 paused at 23:30 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 206 diff changeset	201 covenant", as in the blessing at the Last Supper).
1bc6cf72ea70 paused at 23:30 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 206 diff changeset	202
1bc6cf72ea70 paused at 23:30 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 206 diff changeset	203 Hebrews 4:7 O that today you would hear his voice, harden not your
1bc6cf72ea70 paused at 23:30 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 206 diff changeset	204 hearts [TPA]
1bc6cf72ea70 paused at 23:30 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 206 diff changeset	205
1bc6cf72ea70 paused at 23:30 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 206 diff changeset	206 Hebrews 4:12 Indeed, the word of God is living and active, sharper
1bc6cf72ea70 paused at 23:30 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 206 diff changeset	207 than any two-edged sword, piercing until it divides
1bc6cf72ea70 paused at 23:30 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 206 diff changeset	208 soul from spirit, joints from marrow; it is able to
1bc6cf72ea70 paused at 23:30 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 206 diff changeset	209 judge the thoughts and intentions of the heart. [NRSV]
1bc6cf72ea70 paused at 23:30 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 206 diff changeset	210
1bc6cf72ea70 paused at 23:30 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 206 diff changeset	211 Hebrews 6:4 ... those who have once been enlightened, and have
1bc6cf72ea70 paused at 23:30 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 206 diff changeset	212 tasted the heavenly gift, and have shared in the Holy
1bc6cf72ea70 paused at 23:30 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 206 diff changeset	213 Spirit, (5) and have tasted the goodness of the word of
1bc6cf72ea70 paused at 23:30 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 206 diff changeset	214 God and the powers of the age to come,
1bc6cf72ea70 paused at 23:30 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 206 diff changeset	215
1bc6cf72ea70 paused at 23:30 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 206 diff changeset	216 Hebrews 12:22-25
1bc6cf72ea70 paused at 23:30 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 206 diff changeset	217
1bc6cf72ea70 paused at 23:30 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 206 diff changeset	218 22 But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of
1bc6cf72ea70 paused at 23:30 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 206 diff changeset	219 the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to
1bc6cf72ea70 paused at 23:30 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 206 diff changeset	220 innumerable angels in festal gathering,
1bc6cf72ea70 paused at 23:30 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 206 diff changeset	221
1bc6cf72ea70 paused at 23:30 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 206 diff changeset	222 23 and to the assembly of the firstborn who are enrolled
1bc6cf72ea70 paused at 23:30 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 206 diff changeset	223 in heaven, and to God the judge of all, and to the
1bc6cf72ea70 paused at 23:30 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 206 diff changeset	224 spirits of the righteous made perfect,
1bc6cf72ea70 paused at 23:30 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 206 diff changeset	225
1bc6cf72ea70 paused at 23:30 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 206 diff changeset	226 24 and to Jesus, the mediator of a new covenant, and to
1bc6cf72ea70 paused at 23:30 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 206 diff changeset	227 the sprinkled blood that speaks a better word than the
1bc6cf72ea70 paused at 23:30 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 206 diff changeset	228 blood of Abel.
1bc6cf72ea70 paused at 23:30 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 206 diff changeset	229
1bc6cf72ea70 paused at 23:30 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 206 diff changeset	230 25 See that you do not refuse the one who is speaking [NRSV]
208 b1f88292d482 end of TPA talking head day 2 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 207 diff changeset	231
b1f88292d482 end of TPA talking head day 2 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 207 diff changeset	232 2) Jesus: how do you recognise the living word, the true prophet?
b1f88292d482 end of TPA talking head day 2 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 207 diff changeset	233
b1f88292d482 end of TPA talking head day 2 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 207 diff changeset	234 A sharpness in the way Luke talks about Jesus, particularly the way
b1f88292d482 end of TPA talking head day 2 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 207 diff changeset	235 in which he says you have to see things differently: the old ways of
b1f88292d482 end of TPA talking head day 2 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 207 diff changeset	236 recognition are not capable of seeing the new thing that is emerging.
b1f88292d482 end of TPA talking head day 2 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 207 diff changeset	237
b1f88292d482 end of TPA talking head day 2 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 207 diff changeset	238 Unless you change, you will not perceive
b1f88292d482 end of TPA talking head day 2 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 207 diff changeset	239
b1f88292d482 end of TPA talking head day 2 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 207 diff changeset	240 Prompting people into a new way of seeing -- not about ethics in
b1f88292d482 end of TPA talking head day 2 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 207 diff changeset	241 Luke, about how to live...
b1f88292d482 end of TPA talking head day 2 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 207 diff changeset	242
b1f88292d482 end of TPA talking head day 2 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 207 diff changeset	243 Luke 7:18--21 - questions about John; how can this man be a prophet
b1f88292d482 end of TPA talking head day 2 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 207 diff changeset	244 -- what we you looking to _see_ when you went out to the desert to
b1f88292d482 end of TPA talking head day 2 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 207 diff changeset	245 find John? You get it wrong: John is mad, I'm a drunkard. [those
b1f88292d482 end of TPA talking head day 2 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 207 diff changeset	246 are the old ways of seeing]. At the end [7:35] "Wisdom is justified
b1f88292d482 end of TPA talking head day 2 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 207 diff changeset	247 [vindicate] by [all] her children". [NRSV]
b1f88292d482 end of TPA talking head day 2 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 207 diff changeset	248
b1f88292d482 end of TPA talking head day 2 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 207 diff changeset	249 Parable of the Sower explained: "The seed is the word" [8:11].
b1f88292d482 end of TPA talking head day 2 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 207 diff changeset	250
b1f88292d482 end of TPA talking head day 2 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 207 diff changeset	251 "Then pay attention to how you listen; for to those who have, more
b1f88292d482 end of TPA talking head day 2 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 207 diff changeset	252 will be given; and from those who do not have, even what they seem to
b1f88292d482 end of TPA talking head day 2 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 207 diff changeset	253 have will be taken away" [8:18]
b1f88292d482 end of TPA talking head day 2 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 207 diff changeset	254
b1f88292d482 end of TPA talking head day 2 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 207 diff changeset	255 Who are my mother and my brothers? "My mother and my brothers are
b1f88292d482 end of TPA talking head day 2 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 207 diff changeset	256 those who hear the word of the Lord and do it." [8:21]
b1f88292d482 end of TPA talking head day 2 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 207 diff changeset	257
b1f88292d482 end of TPA talking head day 2 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 207 diff changeset	258 3) All the faithful may prophecy
b1f88292d482 end of TPA talking head day 2 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 207 diff changeset	259
b1f88292d482 end of TPA talking head day 2 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 207 diff changeset	260 Pentecost
b1f88292d482 end of TPA talking head day 2 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 207 diff changeset	261 1 Corinthians 14:
207 1bc6cf72ea70 paused at 23:30 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 206 diff changeset	262
208 b1f88292d482 end of TPA talking head day 2 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 207 diff changeset	263 29 Let two or three prophets speak, and let the others weigh what
b1f88292d482 end of TPA talking head day 2 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 207 diff changeset	264 is said.
b1f88292d482 end of TPA talking head day 2 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 207 diff changeset	265
b1f88292d482 end of TPA talking head day 2 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 207 diff changeset	266 30 If a revelation is made to someone else sitting nearby, let
b1f88292d482 end of TPA talking head day 2 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 207 diff changeset	267 the first person be silent.
b1f88292d482 end of TPA talking head day 2 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 207 diff changeset	268
b1f88292d482 end of TPA talking head day 2 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 207 diff changeset	269 31 For you can all prophesy one by one, so that all may learn and
b1f88292d482 end of TPA talking head day 2 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 207 diff changeset	270 all be encouraged.
b1f88292d482 end of TPA talking head day 2 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 207 diff changeset	271
b1f88292d482 end of TPA talking head day 2 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 207 diff changeset	272 32 And the spirits of prophets are subject to the prophets, [NRSV]
b1f88292d482 end of TPA talking head day 2 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 207 diff changeset	273
b1f88292d482 end of TPA talking head day 2 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 207 diff changeset	274 Listen with the same spirit as what is being said...
b1f88292d482 end of TPA talking head day 2 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 207 diff changeset	275
b1f88292d482 end of TPA talking head day 2 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 207 diff changeset	276 The priesthood of all the faithful 1 Peter 2:
b1f88292d482 end of TPA talking head day 2 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 207 diff changeset	277
b1f88292d482 end of TPA talking head day 2 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 207 diff changeset	278 9 But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation,
b1f88292d482 end of TPA talking head day 2 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 207 diff changeset	279
b1f88292d482 end of TPA talking head day 2 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 207 diff changeset	280 Doesn't last: ref. pressures above, _and_ conflict within[/between]
b1f88292d482 end of TPA talking head day 2 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 207 diff changeset	281 the communities, bishops 'overseers' and deacons 'servants'
b1f88292d482 end of TPA talking head day 2 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 207 diff changeset	282 emerge by the end of the NT era.
b1f88292d482 end of TPA talking head day 2 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 207 diff changeset	283
b1f88292d482 end of TPA talking head day 2 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 207 diff changeset	284 Prophecy is unpredictable, elusive: importance of community in
b1f88292d482 end of TPA talking head day 2 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 207 diff changeset	285 discernment, emerging in Paul, prophetic testing, what builds up the community.
b1f88292d482 end of TPA talking head day 2 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 207 diff changeset	286
b1f88292d482 end of TPA talking head day 2 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 207 diff changeset	287 -----
b1f88292d482 end of TPA talking head day 2 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 207 diff changeset	288
b1f88292d482 end of TPA talking head day 2 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 207 diff changeset	289 The problem of discernment emerges: The development of the Spirit-led
b1f88292d482 end of TPA talking head day 2 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 207 diff changeset	290 life, but Which of the developments are distortions, which are truly
b1f88292d482 end of TPA talking head day 2 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 207 diff changeset	291 spirit-led
b1f88292d482 end of TPA talking head day 2 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 207 diff changeset	292
209 59f4ab0279f7 End of part I Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 208 diff changeset	293 -----Discussion-------
59f4ab0279f7 End of part I Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 208 diff changeset	294 SM: Wrt the focus being on the person, it's because the _problem_ is with
59f4ab0279f7 End of part I Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 208 diff changeset	295 humanity, the Fall, (ref. Nayler and the Eastern church)
59f4ab0279f7 End of part I Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 208 diff changeset	296
59f4ab0279f7 End of part I Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 208 diff changeset	297 TPA: We are not separate from Creation, and when things go wrong it has
59f4ab0279f7 End of part I Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 208 diff changeset	298 _cosmic_ significance: if the image of God is lost in us, that's a
59f4ab0279f7 End of part I Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 208 diff changeset	299 fundamental problem.
59f4ab0279f7 End of part I Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 208 diff changeset	300
59f4ab0279f7 End of part I Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 208 diff changeset	301 BPD: What happens to Heaven on Earth as the pressure builds?
59f4ab0279f7 End of part I Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 208 diff changeset	302
59f4ab0279f7 End of part I Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 208 diff changeset	303 TPA: That leads to serious questions about how Jesus is understood.
59f4ab0279f7 End of part I Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 208 diff changeset	304 By John, Jesus has been considerably elevated ("my Lord and my God").
59f4ab0279f7 End of part I Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 208 diff changeset	305 The earliest Christianity as "living the Spirit-led life" is somehow
59f4ab0279f7 End of part I Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 208 diff changeset	306 overshadowed by the role of faith in Jesus -> you will have eternal
59f4ab0279f7 End of part I Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 208 diff changeset	307 life. The conflict makes the focus be on preservation rather than
59f4ab0279f7 End of part I Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 208 diff changeset	308 growth. Keeping, protecting, holding the community.
59f4ab0279f7 End of part I Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 208 diff changeset	309
59f4ab0279f7 End of part I Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 208 diff changeset	310 SM: We need to be ordered in order to survive. Parallel with early
59f4ab0279f7 End of part I Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 208 diff changeset	311 Friends. Accommodating to the world is precisely what compromises the
59f4ab0279f7 End of part I Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 208 diff changeset	312 vision. "They were possessed of the Spirit, and lost it" vs. "They
59f4ab0279f7 End of part I Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 208 diff changeset	313 were crazy, and then settled down" Early Christians, and early
59f4ab0279f7 End of part I Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 208 diff changeset	314 Friends.
59f4ab0279f7 End of part I Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 208 diff changeset	315
59f4ab0279f7 End of part I Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 208 diff changeset	316 TPA: The tension is there, in the NT, between the focus being on
59f4ab0279f7 End of part I Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 208 diff changeset	317 living the Spirit-led life, or being extraordinarily devoted to Jesus.
59f4ab0279f7 End of part I Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 208 diff changeset	318 "If you start only with Jesus's divinity, that's a fixed point: it
59f4ab0279f7 End of part I Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 208 diff changeset	319 [the NT] doesn't reveal its truth".
59f4ab0279f7 End of part I Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 208 diff changeset	320
59f4ab0279f7 End of part I Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 208 diff changeset	321 BPD: So is the problem that they didn't have, as it were, Fox and
59f4ab0279f7 End of part I Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 208 diff changeset	322 Fell, to take things in hand and lead them forward?
59f4ab0279f7 End of part I Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 208 diff changeset	323
59f4ab0279f7 End of part I Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 208 diff changeset	324 TPA: Hmm. The network is there, there are links between the
59f4ab0279f7 End of part I Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 208 diff changeset	325 communities, Paul is travelling, others are too. And there are things
59f4ab0279f7 End of part I Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 208 diff changeset	326 that are shared/persist, e.g. Jesus, and the life in the Spirit, but
59f4ab0279f7 End of part I Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 208 diff changeset	327 dealing with the world is less systematic, the problem [of outside
59f4ab0279f7 End of part I Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 208 diff changeset	328 pressure] becomes more acute. This leads towards hierarchy and an
59f4ab0279f7 End of part I Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 208 diff changeset	329 authority structure, centred on Rome by the end of the 1st century.
59f4ab0279f7 End of part I Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 208 diff changeset	330 You have the Bishop of Rome writing to the community in Corinth in
59f4ab0279f7 End of part I Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 208 diff changeset	331 95CE.
59f4ab0279f7 End of part I Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 208 diff changeset	332
59f4ab0279f7 End of part I Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 208 diff changeset	333 SM: Parallel with the shift of power from Swarthmore Hall to London,
59f4ab0279f7 End of part I Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 208 diff changeset	334 with the male Elders in the Second-Day Morning Meeting controlling
59f4ab0279f7 End of part I Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 208 diff changeset	335 what can be published in the Quaker name. You see the need to control
59f4ab0279f7 End of part I Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 208 diff changeset	336 the public image.
59f4ab0279f7 End of part I Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 208 diff changeset	337
59f4ab0279f7 End of part I Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 208 diff changeset	338 TPA, responding to BPD: You see this in how Jesus goes about his work:
59f4ab0279f7 End of part I Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 208 diff changeset	339 It's not [Gnostic] "we know and you don't", rather "the only way you
59f4ab0279f7 End of part I Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 208 diff changeset	340 can come to this is by seeing it yourself", "there's no bit of
59f4ab0279f7 End of part I Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 208 diff changeset	341 teaching that is going to do this [for you]", difficult, being really
59f4ab0279f7 End of part I Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 208 diff changeset	342 creative: Parables are _not neat_, they're provocative.
59f4ab0279f7 End of part I Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 208 diff changeset	343
59f4ab0279f7 End of part I Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 208 diff changeset	344 SM: [In a group where] two or three people had had significant
59f4ab0279f7 End of part I Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 208 diff changeset	345 transformative spiritual experiences, and they felt that it isolated
59f4ab0279f7 End of part I Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 208 diff changeset	346 them from their communities, where no-one else had had that...
59f4ab0279f7 End of part I Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 208 diff changeset	347
59f4ab0279f7 End of part I Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 208 diff changeset	348 [Brilliant, speaking with the prophetic voice, post from Linda
59f4ab0279f7 End of part I Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 208 diff changeset	349 Garrett: https://moodle.woodbrooke.org.uk/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=14564]
210 89a7691c3868 Stuart Masters 1, through 28:40 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 209 diff changeset	350
89a7691c3868 Stuart Masters 1, through 28:40 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 209 diff changeset	351 ==========================
89a7691c3868 Stuart Masters 1, through 28:40 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 209 diff changeset	352 Stuart Masters _The Early Quakers_
89a7691c3868 Stuart Masters 1, through 28:40 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 209 diff changeset	353 ==========================
89a7691c3868 Stuart Masters 1, through 28:40 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 209 diff changeset	354
89a7691c3868 Stuart Masters 1, through 28:40 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 209 diff changeset	355 Mainstream Puritanism at the start of the Quaker period is quite
89a7691c3868 Stuart Masters 1, through 28:40 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 209 diff changeset	356 straight Calvanism, with predestination of the Elect as the core.
89a7691c3868 Stuart Masters 1, through 28:40 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 209 diff changeset	357
89a7691c3868 Stuart Masters 1, through 28:40 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 209 diff changeset	358 Radical Puritanism, in contract, really experiencing and knowing God
89a7691c3868 Stuart Masters 1, through 28:40 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 209 diff changeset	359 within yourself, shared with the early Quaker vision.
89a7691c3868 Stuart Masters 1, through 28:40 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 209 diff changeset	360
89a7691c3868 Stuart Masters 1, through 28:40 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 209 diff changeset	361 The Experience and the Vision
89a7691c3868 Stuart Masters 1, through 28:40 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 209 diff changeset	362
89a7691c3868 Stuart Masters 1, through 28:40 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 209 diff changeset	363 Pentecost -- the catalyst, the enabler
89a7691c3868 Stuart Masters 1, through 28:40 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 209 diff changeset	364
89a7691c3868 Stuart Masters 1, through 28:40 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 209 diff changeset	365 The spirit of God poured on all people:
89a7691c3868 Stuart Masters 1, through 28:40 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 209 diff changeset	366
89a7691c3868 Stuart Masters 1, through 28:40 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 209 diff changeset	367 Joel 2:28 (Peter adverts to this in Acts 2:17)
89a7691c3868 Stuart Masters 1, through 28:40 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 209 diff changeset	368
89a7691c3868 Stuart Masters 1, through 28:40 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 209 diff changeset	369 In the last days it will be, God declares, that I will pour out my
89a7691c3868 Stuart Masters 1, through 28:40 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 209 diff changeset	370 Spirit upon _all_ flesh, and your sons and your daughters shall
89a7691c3868 Stuart Masters 1, through 28:40 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 209 diff changeset	371 prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men
89a7691c3868 Stuart Masters 1, through 28:40 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 209 diff changeset	372 shall dream dreams. [NRSV] [Emphasis added by SM]
89a7691c3868 Stuart Masters 1, through 28:40 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 209 diff changeset	373
89a7691c3868 Stuart Masters 1, through 28:40 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 209 diff changeset	374 Made possible by the Incarnation -- a new creation
89a7691c3868 Stuart Masters 1, through 28:40 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 209 diff changeset	375
89a7691c3868 Stuart Masters 1, through 28:40 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 209 diff changeset	376 Leads to Charismatic aspect of early Quakerism: Embodied
89a7691c3868 Stuart Masters 1, through 28:40 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 209 diff changeset	377 spirituality Signs, miracles, healing
89a7691c3868 Stuart Masters 1, through 28:40 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 209 diff changeset	378
89a7691c3868 Stuart Masters 1, through 28:40 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 209 diff changeset	379 [same as TPA above]: The new creation is both individual, and
89a7691c3868 Stuart Masters 1, through 28:40 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 209 diff changeset	380 universal:
89a7691c3868 Stuart Masters 1, through 28:40 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 209 diff changeset	381
89a7691c3868 Stuart Masters 1, through 28:40 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 209 diff changeset	382 "...give all diligence to the Spirit's motion and leadings, what it
89a7691c3868 Stuart Masters 1, through 28:40 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 209 diff changeset	383 moves against, and what it leads to; for now will God make all
89a7691c3868 Stuart Masters 1, through 28:40 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 209 diff changeset	384 things new: a new creation, new heavens, and new earth, and new
89a7691c3868 Stuart Masters 1, through 28:40 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 209 diff changeset	385 heart and mind, and a new law, a new man to walk therein with his
89a7691c3868 Stuart Masters 1, through 28:40 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 209 diff changeset	386 Maker with cheerfulness" James Nayler _Milk for Babes and Meat for
89a7691c3868 Stuart Masters 1, through 28:40 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 209 diff changeset	387 Strong Men_ [from prison, 1660, published 1661]
89a7691c3868 Stuart Masters 1, through 28:40 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 209 diff changeset	388 http://www.qhpress.org/texts/nayler/milkmeat.html
89a7691c3868 Stuart Masters 1, through 28:40 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 209 diff changeset	389
89a7691c3868 Stuart Masters 1, through 28:40 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 209 diff changeset	390 The New Covenant
89a7691c3868 Stuart Masters 1, through 28:40 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 209 diff changeset	391
89a7691c3868 Stuart Masters 1, through 28:40 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 209 diff changeset	392 Jeremiah 31:33-34 [loc. cit. above at The living word]
89a7691c3868 Stuart Masters 1, through 28:40 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 209 diff changeset	393 repeated in Hebrews 8
89a7691c3868 Stuart Masters 1, through 28:40 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 209 diff changeset	394
89a7691c3868 Stuart Masters 1, through 28:40 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 209 diff changeset	395 The image of God fully restored, God will teach us Godself.
89a7691c3868 Stuart Masters 1, through 28:40 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 209 diff changeset	396
89a7691c3868 Stuart Masters 1, through 28:40 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 209 diff changeset	397 But the truth of this in the early Church had been lost, people had
89a7691c3868 Stuart Masters 1, through 28:40 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 209 diff changeset	398 turned away from the spirit and power of that experience and that
89a7691c3868 Stuart Masters 1, through 28:40 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 209 diff changeset	399 direct inward intimacy, and had turned again to 2nd-hand, outward,
89a7691c3868 Stuart Masters 1, through 28:40 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 209 diff changeset	400 mediated sorts of ways of relating to God.
89a7691c3868 Stuart Masters 1, through 28:40 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 209 diff changeset	401
89a7691c3868 Stuart Masters 1, through 28:40 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 209 diff changeset	402 "And this we witness to be that covenant and that power by which we
89a7691c3868 Stuart Masters 1, through 28:40 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 209 diff changeset	403 are entered into that inheritance which is eternal and are made
89a7691c3868 Stuart Masters 1, through 28:40 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 209 diff changeset	404 partakers of the divine nature; which nature is righteous, merciful
89a7691c3868 Stuart Masters 1, through 28:40 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 209 diff changeset	405 and just, meek and patient, faithful and diligent to the obedience
89a7691c3868 Stuart Masters 1, through 28:40 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 209 diff changeset	406 of the cross, long-suffering, full of love, moderation and
89a7691c3868 Stuart Masters 1, through 28:40 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 209 diff changeset	407 temperance, and in all things thereby are transformed into his
89a7691c3868 Stuart Masters 1, through 28:40 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 209 diff changeset	408 likeness,68 so far as we are entered into and abide in this
89a7691c3868 Stuart Masters 1, through 28:40 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 209 diff changeset	409 covenant, so that we can truly say, here he is all, and self is
89a7691c3868 Stuart Masters 1, through 28:40 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 209 diff changeset	410 nothing" James Nayler _A Salutation to the Seed of God_ 1655
89a7691c3868 Stuart Masters 1, through 28:40 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 209 diff changeset	411 http://www.qhpress.org/texts/nayler/sal_seed.html
89a7691c3868 Stuart Masters 1, through 28:40 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 209 diff changeset	412
89a7691c3868 Stuart Masters 1, through 28:40 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 209 diff changeset	413 Christ living in us (ref. Paul in Galatians 2:20)
89a7691c3868 Stuart Masters 1, through 28:40 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 209 diff changeset	414
89a7691c3868 Stuart Masters 1, through 28:40 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 209 diff changeset	415 The Apocalyptic
89a7691c3868 Stuart Masters 1, through 28:40 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 209 diff changeset	416
89a7691c3868 Stuart Masters 1, through 28:40 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 209 diff changeset	417 Not about cataclysmic conflict and destruction, but primarily about
89a7691c3868 Stuart Masters 1, through 28:40 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 209 diff changeset	418 God removing the veil that obscures our vision of things.
89a7691c3868 Stuart Masters 1, through 28:40 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 209 diff changeset	419
89a7691c3868 Stuart Masters 1, through 28:40 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 209 diff changeset	420 People begin to see themselves and the whole creation through divine
89a7691c3868 Stuart Masters 1, through 28:40 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 209 diff changeset	421 eys rather than through their limited and often distorted human
89a7691c3868 Stuart Masters 1, through 28:40 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 209 diff changeset	422 vision.
89a7691c3868 Stuart Masters 1, through 28:40 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 209 diff changeset	423
89a7691c3868 Stuart Masters 1, through 28:40 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 209 diff changeset	424 "The word is that which was in the beginning, and was the beginning
89a7691c3868 Stuart Masters 1, through 28:40 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 209 diff changeset	425 of all visible things, and that by which all things were made, but
89a7691c3868 Stuart Masters 1, through 28:40 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 209 diff changeset	426 itself is invisible; which though it be the upholder of all visible
89a7691c3868 Stuart Masters 1, through 28:40 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 209 diff changeset	427 things, yet can no visible thing reveal it; yet doth it reveal the
89a7691c3868 Stuart Masters 1, through 28:40 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 209 diff changeset	428 ground and use and end of all visibles. And as without it 'was
89a7691c3868 Stuart Masters 1, through 28:40 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 209 diff changeset	429 nothing made that was made', so without it is nothing seen as it was
89a7691c3868 Stuart Masters 1, through 28:40 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 209 diff changeset	430 made, nor anything can be guided nor used in its pure place; but
89a7691c3868 Stuart Masters 1, through 28:40 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 209 diff changeset	431 whatever man meddles with, not having the word in him to guide,
89a7691c3868 Stuart Masters 1, through 28:40 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 209 diff changeset	432 order, and sanctify, the same he defiles, and it is polluted as to
89a7691c3868 Stuart Masters 1, through 28:40 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 209 diff changeset	433 him. Nor can this word be comprehended in heaven or earth; without
89a7691c3868 Stuart Masters 1, through 28:40 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 209 diff changeset	434 this word can no holy Scripture be read with profit, for it opens
89a7691c3868 Stuart Masters 1, through 28:40 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 209 diff changeset	435 the Scriptures, and the Scriptures declare of it, yet cannot the
89a7691c3868 Stuart Masters 1, through 28:40 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 209 diff changeset	436 Scriptures nor all the writings of the world comprehend it nor
89a7691c3868 Stuart Masters 1, through 28:40 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 209 diff changeset	437 declare the depth and extent of it, which is beyond all generations;
89a7691c3868 Stuart Masters 1, through 28:40 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 209 diff changeset	438 yet is it the teacher and guide of his own in all generations; and
89a7691c3868 Stuart Masters 1, through 28:40 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 209 diff changeset	439 in all generations of saints hath been known in measure, more or
89a7691c3868 Stuart Masters 1, through 28:40 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 209 diff changeset	440 less immediately, though it has no place in the world's profession."
89a7691c3868 Stuart Masters 1, through 28:40 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 209 diff changeset	441 James Nayler _Love To The Lost And a Hand held forth to the
89a7691c3868 Stuart Masters 1, through 28:40 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 209 diff changeset	442 Helpless To Lead out of the Dark_ 1656b
89a7691c3868 Stuart Masters 1, through 28:40 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 209 diff changeset	443 http://www.qhpress.org/texts/nayler/lovelost.html
89a7691c3868 Stuart Masters 1, through 28:40 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 209 diff changeset	444
89a7691c3868 Stuart Masters 1, through 28:40 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 209 diff changeset	445 ["I am not the Christ, but Christ lives in me"]
89a7691c3868 Stuart Masters 1, through 28:40 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 209 diff changeset	446
89a7691c3868 Stuart Masters 1, through 28:40 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 209 diff changeset	447 The Prophetic - the image of God has been fully restored in the human
89a7691c3868 Stuart Masters 1, through 28:40 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 209 diff changeset	448
89a7691c3868 Stuart Masters 1, through 28:40 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 209 diff changeset	449 Back to Jeremiah and Paul: In the new humanity, people become vessels
89a7691c3868 Stuart Masters 1, through 28:40 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 209 diff changeset	450 through which God speaks and acts.
89a7691c3868 Stuart Masters 1, through 28:40 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 209 diff changeset	451
89a7691c3868 Stuart Masters 1, through 28:40 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 209 diff changeset	452 This is what humanity was created to be, was lost, and is now possible
89a7691c3868 Stuart Masters 1, through 28:40 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 209 diff changeset	453 again.
89a7691c3868 Stuart Masters 1, through 28:40 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 209 diff changeset	454
89a7691c3868 Stuart Masters 1, through 28:40 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 209 diff changeset	455 "Verily the Lord God hath sent me to declare and publish, and sound
89a7691c3868 Stuart Masters 1, through 28:40 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 209 diff changeset	456 forth hsi message unto all Israel, even to declare the day of free
89a7691c3868 Stuart Masters 1, through 28:40 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 209 diff changeset	457 love, and everlasting consolation, how blessed a thing is it for the
89a7691c3868 Stuart Masters 1, through 28:40 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 209 diff changeset	458 Brethren to dwell together in the unity of love and the Holy Spirit,
89a7691c3868 Stuart Masters 1, through 28:40 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 209 diff changeset	459 in the covenant of love and peace, in the union of Saints in the
89a7691c3868 Stuart Masters 1, through 28:40 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 209 diff changeset	460 Light." Dorothy White _Unto All God's Host in England_ 1660
89a7691c3868 Stuart Masters 1, through 28:40 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 209 diff changeset	461 [not online?]
89a7691c3868 Stuart Masters 1, through 28:40 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 209 diff changeset	462
89a7691c3868 Stuart Masters 1, through 28:40 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 209 diff changeset	463 The Fall was a fragmentation, the new opportunity is to find a
89a7691c3868 Stuart Masters 1, through 28:40 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 209 diff changeset	464 communal identify: a temple of living stones.
89a7691c3868 Stuart Masters 1, through 28:40 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 209 diff changeset	465
89a7691c3868 Stuart Masters 1, through 28:40 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 209 diff changeset	466 Rather than sitting helplessly, knowing nothing about your own
89a7691c3868 Stuart Masters 1, through 28:40 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 209 diff changeset	467 salvation or lack thereof. No, heaven has come down to earth and is
89a7691c3868 Stuart Masters 1, through 28:40 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 209 diff changeset	468 dwelling in us, and we are showing it forth.
89a7691c3868 Stuart Masters 1, through 28:40 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 209 diff changeset	469
89a7691c3868 Stuart Masters 1, through 28:40 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 209 diff changeset	470 "thus is the Living God Purifying his Temples [us?]; and he is
89a7691c3868 Stuart Masters 1, through 28:40 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 209 diff changeset	471 making a Glorious Situation, a Heavenly Habitation, and an
89a7691c3868 Stuart Masters 1, through 28:40 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 209 diff changeset	472 Everlasting dwelling place in the Sons and Daughters of Men; for God
89a7691c3868 Stuart Masters 1, through 28:40 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 209 diff changeset	473 is now come to dwell in his people, as he hath said, I will dwell in
89a7691c3868 Stuart Masters 1, through 28:40 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 209 diff changeset	474 them, and I will walk in them, and a people hath God chosen to dwell
89a7691c3868 Stuart Masters 1, through 28:40 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 209 diff changeset	475 in, and this is Gods everlasting day of loving kindness," Dorothy
89a7691c3868 Stuart Masters 1, through 28:40 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 209 diff changeset	476 White _A Visitation of Heavenly Love_ 1660
89a7691c3868 Stuart Masters 1, through 28:40 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 209 diff changeset	477 http://www.qhpress.org/cgi-bin/esrlink.cgi?doc=E27763157&name=dorothy.white
89a7691c3868 Stuart Masters 1, through 28:40 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 209 diff changeset	478 [page 6]
89a7691c3868 Stuart Masters 1, through 28:40 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 209 diff changeset	479 http://dqc.esr.earlham.edu:8080/xmlmm/docButtonB?XMLMMWhat=builtPage&XMLMMWhere=E27763157.P00000010-6&XMLMMBeanName=docBean&XMLMMNextPage=/printBuiltPageBrowse.jsp
89a7691c3868 Stuart Masters 1, through 28:40 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 209 diff changeset	480
89a7691c3868 Stuart Masters 1, through 28:40 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 209 diff changeset	481 [paused at 28:40]

Mercurial > hg > rsof

annotate HeavenOnEarth/notes.txt @ 210:89a7691c3868