rsof: HeavenOnEarth/notes.txt annotate

annotate HeavenOnEarth/notes.txt @ 209:59f4ab0279f7

End of part I

author	Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk>
date	Thu, 24 Jun 2021 22:32:33 +0100
parents	b1f88292d482
children	89a7691c3868

rev	line source
206 a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	1 Tim Peat Ashworth: Paul as focussed on the transformation of all
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	2 creation, originating in the transformation of ourselves. Finding
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	3 that throughout the NT.
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	4
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	5 "The William": There's a big gap in the New Testament narratives: the
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	6 Romans, the resistance, Masada (73 CE), etc. Why?
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	7
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	8 Stuart M: Tension between the quiet, inward worship practice and the
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	9 noisy, outward, charismatic behaviour it underpinned.
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	10
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	11 The struggle to survive post-Restoration plus the failure of the
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	12 expectation of external transformation put the previous public
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	13 aspect of Quakerism had to be reined in.
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	14
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	15 Barclay gives up on radical equality: God's plan allows for
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	16 different wealth for different people.
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	17
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	18 Branston-Hicks metaphor! Is there still a real labour and birth
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	19 still to come?
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	20
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	21 TPA: But note that in early Christianity the challenge of organisation
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	22 vs. inspiration leads to an emergence of hierarchy, but that never
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	23 happened among Friends...
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	24
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	25 Ben Dandelion: Fox appealing to "30 minutes of silence" in Revelation,
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	26 and the inward communion in Revelation 3:20 (?: "Here I am! I stand at
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	27 the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	28 will come in and eat with that person, and they with me.").
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	29
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	30 Evangelical framing of their situation in the 18th century falls in
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	31 line with the "sometime in the distance" for the expectation of the
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	32 2nd Coming
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	33
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	34 How can we reframe the idea of Heaven on Earth, reinvent the
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	35 tradition, to keep the possibility of transformation alive.
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	36
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	37 How do we make sense of what is essentially a 2nd coming liturgy?
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	38
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	39 If we're waiting for humanity to respond to the opportunity, what
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	40 will it take for that to happen? [TPA: When we realise there is no
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	41 alternative]
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	42
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	43 TPA: What accounts then for the "20% of London and Bristol were
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	44 caught up by Quakerism" in the 1650s? BPD: [The context: finding
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	45 certainity and hope in a catastrophic situation]
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	46
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	47 The contrast of "anyone can be saved" with much of what the other
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	48 churches were saying.
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	49
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	50 ----------TPA video 1----------
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	51
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	52 Luke: "The Spirit of the Lord is upon me" are Jesus's first public
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	53 words. Thereafter we don't hear much about the Spirit, but the
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	54 unspoken sub-text is, wrt Jesus himself: "Look at Jesus: This is what
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	55 the Spirit-led life looks like". The Spirit gives a foretaste of what
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	56 is to come... Paul describes the Apostles as 'Ambassadors of life in
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	57 the Spirit'. Manifesting life in the Spirit as it was in Jesus,
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	58 because they saw it in him. [Note that this makes Paul's claim to
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	59 _be_ and Apostle a bit tenuous]
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	60
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	61 Early Christian communities: spiritual families ('brother' and 'sister')
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	62 Boundaries crossed/erased -- manifestations of the Spirit -- but a
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	63 diversity of gifts. Their community life is manifesting what the
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	64 Spirit is bringing and will bring.
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	65
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	66 Revelation: taking away a veil, now, and coming. Normal way of seeing
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	67 boundaries between e.g. classes is falling away, seeing things in new
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	68 ways. Not a new set of teachings, but a new kind of perception [and
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	69 of living?]
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	70
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	71 Crunch time: how much can you rely on this? First conflict over the
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	72 dietary laws. The Law vs. the new vision. Matthew keeps a strong
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	73 place for the Law, Jesus as a teacher in the Jewish tradition
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	74 (radical, but in the same tradition).
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	75
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	76 Humanity is to be transformed, and continue, in the Spirit, (and so
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	77 the whole of Creation is transformed).
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	78
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	79 Luke has what Eden Grace described: "Creation waits with eager/anxious expectation"
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	80 A sense of bringing to birth, with the attendant hint of anxiety.
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	81 And we have the Spirit as midwife to the change: support with firmness
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	82
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	83 Humanity refashioned not just in, but as, the image ('ikon') of God
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	84
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	85 And this has to begin with a dying of the old form of life.
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	86 "_I_ live no longer, but Christ lives in me" [Paul, somewhere]
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	87
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	88 TPA (responding to SM): There's a _lot_ about newness in the NT, but
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	89 it's almost all about people coming into a new understanding of what
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	90 it is to be human, and not much about seeing the whole of creation in
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	91 a new way, as early Friends would.
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	92
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	93 PBD paraphrasing TPA (responding to BPD): Jesus's resurrection is the
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	94 _beginning_ of the fulfillment of the prophesy of universal
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	95 resurrection: "a justification that something major has begun, if if
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	96 it hasn't been completed".
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	97
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	98 TPA (responding so SM 42:10): Was it a time of constant upheaval,
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	99 heavy oppresive behavious from the occupying Roman forces, etc.? A
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	100 lot of scholarly debate pro and con on this. Ed Saunders (sp?) yes
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	101 life was tough, harvests failed, but Roman rule was by-and-large _not_
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	102 obtrusive, and largely implemented through local intermediaries.
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	103
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	104 BPD: Are the Gospels trying, as they tell it, to reconfigure what
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	105 happened leading up to and in Jesus's crucifixion to fit with new
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	106 sense of delay [in the Kingdom] [that they were experiencing 20/30
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	107 years later]?
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	108
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	109 The coming of the Spirit to the Gentiles, which happened very quickly,
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	110 was "the knock-down argument" that the coming resurrection was for
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	111 _all_ people, not just the (people formerly known as the) Chosen of
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	112 God.
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	113
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	114 ==============Forum discussions==========
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	115 I need to say something in this thread:
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	116 https://moodle.woodbrooke.org.uk/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=14517
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	117 about (FK's reading of) Aquinas's approach to free will and Grace:
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	118 not just us, not just God, but (a mystical union of) both...
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	119
a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	120 ---------TPA Video 2-----------
207 1bc6cf72ea70 paused at 23:30 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 206 diff changeset	121 Back to what is coming, that is heaven on earth, is understood as the
1bc6cf72ea70 paused at 23:30 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 206 diff changeset	122 transformation of humankind. So, not so much heaven on earth as
1bc6cf72ea70 paused at 23:30 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 206 diff changeset	123 heaven _in_ earth, 'in earthy stuff'. Ref. Phil. 2:5-8
1bc6cf72ea70 paused at 23:30 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 206 diff changeset	124
1bc6cf72ea70 paused at 23:30 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 206 diff changeset	125 5 In your relationships with one another, have the same mindset as Christ Jesus:
206 a3f73cd85834 Through Week 1 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: diff changeset	126
207 1bc6cf72ea70 paused at 23:30 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 206 diff changeset	127 6 who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God
1bc6cf72ea70 paused at 23:30 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 206 diff changeset	128 something to be used to his own advantage;
1bc6cf72ea70 paused at 23:30 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 206 diff changeset	129
1bc6cf72ea70 paused at 23:30 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 206 diff changeset	130 7 rather, he made himself nothing by taking the very nature of a
1bc6cf72ea70 paused at 23:30 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 206 diff changeset	131 servant, being made in human likeness.
1bc6cf72ea70 paused at 23:30 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 206 diff changeset	132
1bc6cf72ea70 paused at 23:30 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 206 diff changeset	133 8 And being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself by
1bc6cf72ea70 paused at 23:30 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 206 diff changeset	134 becoming obedient to death � even death on a cross!
1bc6cf72ea70 paused at 23:30 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 206 diff changeset	135
1bc6cf72ea70 paused at 23:30 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 206 diff changeset	136 Ref. Genesis -- "made in the image of God" -- we can do this ourselves.
1bc6cf72ea70 paused at 23:30 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 206 diff changeset	137
1bc6cf72ea70 paused at 23:30 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 206 diff changeset	138 Day of Atonement, in the Temple, in Jerusalem: the only day the High
1bc6cf72ea70 paused at 23:30 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 206 diff changeset	139 Priest goes in to the Holy of Holies. Wearing this-day-only
1bc6cf72ea70 paused at 23:30 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 206 diff changeset	140 vestments, with imagery of Creation and the Garden. In the
1bc6cf72ea70 paused at 23:30 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 206 diff changeset	141 forgiveness that follows, the whole of creation is restored to the
1bc6cf72ea70 paused at 23:30 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 206 diff changeset	142 purity of the Garden.
1bc6cf72ea70 paused at 23:30 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 206 diff changeset	143
1bc6cf72ea70 paused at 23:30 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 206 diff changeset	144 The New Testament is usually approached (i.e. we 21st century folk
1bc6cf72ea70 paused at 23:30 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 206 diff changeset	145 were taught it) through and from the perspective of the later
1bc6cf72ea70 paused at 23:30 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 206 diff changeset	146 developments of the Christian Church.
1bc6cf72ea70 paused at 23:30 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 206 diff changeset	147
1bc6cf72ea70 paused at 23:30 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 206 diff changeset	148 And of course that also has influenced how it is translated.
1bc6cf72ea70 paused at 23:30 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 206 diff changeset	149
1bc6cf72ea70 paused at 23:30 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 206 diff changeset	150 As the community/communities of Early Christians grow and stabilise,
1bc6cf72ea70 paused at 23:30 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 206 diff changeset	151 external pressure on them grows, which in turn leads to a need to have
1bc6cf72ea70 paused at 23:30 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 206 diff changeset	152 an account of their origins that's coherent and reliable, which in
1bc6cf72ea70 paused at 23:30 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 206 diff changeset	153 turn leads to downplaying e.g. the early internal frictions, even as
1bc6cf72ea70 paused at 23:30 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 206 diff changeset	154 the New Testament is still being written...
1bc6cf72ea70 paused at 23:30 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 206 diff changeset	155
1bc6cf72ea70 paused at 23:30 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 206 diff changeset	156 At first there's a lot of flexibility, stories, metaphors, adaptations
1bc6cf72ea70 paused at 23:30 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 206 diff changeset	157 of the Hebrew scriptures.
1bc6cf72ea70 paused at 23:30 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 206 diff changeset	158
1bc6cf72ea70 paused at 23:30 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 206 diff changeset	159 But as the community gets more public, more confident, with more
1bc6cf72ea70 paused at 23:30 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 206 diff changeset	160 impact on the wider world, pressure from outside grows, which
1bc6cf72ea70 paused at 23:30 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 206 diff changeset	161 generates pressure within the community as to how they live in the
1bc6cf72ea70 paused at 23:30 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 206 diff changeset	162 world, what must be held on to and what can change to accommodate to
1bc6cf72ea70 paused at 23:30 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 206 diff changeset	163 outside pressure... And so a structure of authority and reliable
1bc6cf72ea70 paused at 23:30 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 206 diff changeset	164 doctrine emerges
1bc6cf72ea70 paused at 23:30 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 206 diff changeset	165
1bc6cf72ea70 paused at 23:30 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 206 diff changeset	166 *Quakers: three keys to unlock what was happening in earliest
1bc6cf72ea70 paused at 23:30 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 206 diff changeset	167 Christianity*
1bc6cf72ea70 paused at 23:30 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 206 diff changeset	168
208 b1f88292d482 end of TPA talking head day 2 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 207 diff changeset	169 1) The living word
b1f88292d482 end of TPA talking head day 2 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 207 diff changeset	170 'This is the word of the Lord'
b1f88292d482 end of TPA talking head day 2 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 207 diff changeset	171 But in the NT, 'the word of the Lord' does _not_ mean Scripture.
b1f88292d482 end of TPA talking head day 2 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 207 diff changeset	172 As in the OT, it is something that comes to _people_, in the OT
b1f88292d482 end of TPA talking head day 2 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 207 diff changeset	173 the prophets, in the NT the new Christians themselves.
b1f88292d482 end of TPA talking head day 2 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 207 diff changeset	174 Ref. Hebrews, quoting Jeremiah 31:31-34, several times. This is
b1f88292d482 end of TPA talking head day 2 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 207 diff changeset	175 the longest quote of the OT in the NT: "The days are surely coming..."
207 1bc6cf72ea70 paused at 23:30 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 206 diff changeset	176
1bc6cf72ea70 paused at 23:30 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 206 diff changeset	177 31 The days are surely coming, says the Lord, when I will make a
1bc6cf72ea70 paused at 23:30 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 206 diff changeset	178 new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah.
1bc6cf72ea70 paused at 23:30 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 206 diff changeset	179
1bc6cf72ea70 paused at 23:30 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 206 diff changeset	180 32 It will not be like the covenant that I made with their
1bc6cf72ea70 paused at 23:30 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 206 diff changeset	181 ancestors when I took them by the hand to bring them out of the
1bc6cf72ea70 paused at 23:30 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 206 diff changeset	182 land of Egypt�a covenant that they broke, though I was their
1bc6cf72ea70 paused at 23:30 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 206 diff changeset	183 husband, says the Lord.
1bc6cf72ea70 paused at 23:30 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 206 diff changeset	184
1bc6cf72ea70 paused at 23:30 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 206 diff changeset	185 33 But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of
1bc6cf72ea70 paused at 23:30 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 206 diff changeset	186 Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put my law within
1bc6cf72ea70 paused at 23:30 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 206 diff changeset	187 them, and I will write it on their hearts; and I will be their
1bc6cf72ea70 paused at 23:30 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 206 diff changeset	188 God, and they shall be my people.
1bc6cf72ea70 paused at 23:30 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 206 diff changeset	189
1bc6cf72ea70 paused at 23:30 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 206 diff changeset	190 34 No longer shall they teach one another, or say to each other,
1bc6cf72ea70 paused at 23:30 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 206 diff changeset	191 "Know the Lord," for they shall all know me, from the least of
1bc6cf72ea70 paused at 23:30 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 206 diff changeset	192 them to the greatest, says the Lord; for I will forgive their
1bc6cf72ea70 paused at 23:30 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 206 diff changeset	193 iniquity, and remember their sin no more.
1bc6cf72ea70 paused at 23:30 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 206 diff changeset	194 [NRSV https://www.biblestudytools.com/nrs/]
1bc6cf72ea70 paused at 23:30 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 206 diff changeset	195
1bc6cf72ea70 paused at 23:30 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 206 diff changeset	196 Central to early Christian understanding (note reference to a "new
1bc6cf72ea70 paused at 23:30 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 206 diff changeset	197 covenant", as in the blessing at the Last Supper).
1bc6cf72ea70 paused at 23:30 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 206 diff changeset	198
1bc6cf72ea70 paused at 23:30 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 206 diff changeset	199 Hebrews 4:7 O that today you would hear his voice, harden not your
1bc6cf72ea70 paused at 23:30 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 206 diff changeset	200 hearts [TPA]
1bc6cf72ea70 paused at 23:30 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 206 diff changeset	201
1bc6cf72ea70 paused at 23:30 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 206 diff changeset	202 Hebrews 4:12 Indeed, the word of God is living and active, sharper
1bc6cf72ea70 paused at 23:30 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 206 diff changeset	203 than any two-edged sword, piercing until it divides
1bc6cf72ea70 paused at 23:30 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 206 diff changeset	204 soul from spirit, joints from marrow; it is able to
1bc6cf72ea70 paused at 23:30 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 206 diff changeset	205 judge the thoughts and intentions of the heart. [NRSV]
1bc6cf72ea70 paused at 23:30 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 206 diff changeset	206
1bc6cf72ea70 paused at 23:30 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 206 diff changeset	207 Hebrews 6:4 ... those who have once been enlightened, and have
1bc6cf72ea70 paused at 23:30 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 206 diff changeset	208 tasted the heavenly gift, and have shared in the Holy
1bc6cf72ea70 paused at 23:30 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 206 diff changeset	209 Spirit, (5) and have tasted the goodness of the word of
1bc6cf72ea70 paused at 23:30 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 206 diff changeset	210 God and the powers of the age to come,
1bc6cf72ea70 paused at 23:30 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 206 diff changeset	211
1bc6cf72ea70 paused at 23:30 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 206 diff changeset	212 Hebrews 12:22-25
1bc6cf72ea70 paused at 23:30 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 206 diff changeset	213
1bc6cf72ea70 paused at 23:30 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 206 diff changeset	214 22 But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of
1bc6cf72ea70 paused at 23:30 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 206 diff changeset	215 the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to
1bc6cf72ea70 paused at 23:30 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 206 diff changeset	216 innumerable angels in festal gathering,
1bc6cf72ea70 paused at 23:30 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 206 diff changeset	217
1bc6cf72ea70 paused at 23:30 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 206 diff changeset	218 23 and to the assembly of the firstborn who are enrolled
1bc6cf72ea70 paused at 23:30 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 206 diff changeset	219 in heaven, and to God the judge of all, and to the
1bc6cf72ea70 paused at 23:30 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 206 diff changeset	220 spirits of the righteous made perfect,
1bc6cf72ea70 paused at 23:30 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 206 diff changeset	221
1bc6cf72ea70 paused at 23:30 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 206 diff changeset	222 24 and to Jesus, the mediator of a new covenant, and to
1bc6cf72ea70 paused at 23:30 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 206 diff changeset	223 the sprinkled blood that speaks a better word than the
1bc6cf72ea70 paused at 23:30 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 206 diff changeset	224 blood of Abel.
1bc6cf72ea70 paused at 23:30 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 206 diff changeset	225
1bc6cf72ea70 paused at 23:30 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 206 diff changeset	226 25 See that you do not refuse the one who is speaking [NRSV]
208 b1f88292d482 end of TPA talking head day 2 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 207 diff changeset	227
b1f88292d482 end of TPA talking head day 2 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 207 diff changeset	228 2) Jesus: how do you recognise the living word, the true prophet?
b1f88292d482 end of TPA talking head day 2 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 207 diff changeset	229
b1f88292d482 end of TPA talking head day 2 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 207 diff changeset	230 A sharpness in the way Luke talks about Jesus, particularly the way
b1f88292d482 end of TPA talking head day 2 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 207 diff changeset	231 in which he says you have to see things differently: the old ways of
b1f88292d482 end of TPA talking head day 2 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 207 diff changeset	232 recognition are not capable of seeing the new thing that is emerging.
b1f88292d482 end of TPA talking head day 2 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 207 diff changeset	233
b1f88292d482 end of TPA talking head day 2 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 207 diff changeset	234 Unless you change, you will not perceive
b1f88292d482 end of TPA talking head day 2 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 207 diff changeset	235
b1f88292d482 end of TPA talking head day 2 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 207 diff changeset	236 Prompting people into a new way of seeing -- not about ethics in
b1f88292d482 end of TPA talking head day 2 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 207 diff changeset	237 Luke, about how to live...
b1f88292d482 end of TPA talking head day 2 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 207 diff changeset	238
b1f88292d482 end of TPA talking head day 2 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 207 diff changeset	239 Luke 7:18--21 - questions about John; how can this man be a prophet
b1f88292d482 end of TPA talking head day 2 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 207 diff changeset	240 -- what we you looking to _see_ when you went out to the desert to
b1f88292d482 end of TPA talking head day 2 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 207 diff changeset	241 find John? You get it wrong: John is mad, I'm a drunkard. [those
b1f88292d482 end of TPA talking head day 2 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 207 diff changeset	242 are the old ways of seeing]. At the end [7:35] "Wisdom is justified
b1f88292d482 end of TPA talking head day 2 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 207 diff changeset	243 [vindicate] by [all] her children". [NRSV]
b1f88292d482 end of TPA talking head day 2 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 207 diff changeset	244
b1f88292d482 end of TPA talking head day 2 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 207 diff changeset	245 Parable of the Sower explained: "The seed is the word" [8:11].
b1f88292d482 end of TPA talking head day 2 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 207 diff changeset	246
b1f88292d482 end of TPA talking head day 2 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 207 diff changeset	247 "Then pay attention to how you listen; for to those who have, more
b1f88292d482 end of TPA talking head day 2 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 207 diff changeset	248 will be given; and from those who do not have, even what they seem to
b1f88292d482 end of TPA talking head day 2 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 207 diff changeset	249 have will be taken away" [8:18]
b1f88292d482 end of TPA talking head day 2 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 207 diff changeset	250
b1f88292d482 end of TPA talking head day 2 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 207 diff changeset	251 Who are my mother and my brothers? "My mother and my brothers are
b1f88292d482 end of TPA talking head day 2 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 207 diff changeset	252 those who hear the word of the Lord and do it." [8:21]
b1f88292d482 end of TPA talking head day 2 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 207 diff changeset	253
b1f88292d482 end of TPA talking head day 2 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 207 diff changeset	254 3) All the faithful may prophecy
b1f88292d482 end of TPA talking head day 2 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 207 diff changeset	255
b1f88292d482 end of TPA talking head day 2 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 207 diff changeset	256 Pentecost
b1f88292d482 end of TPA talking head day 2 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 207 diff changeset	257 1 Corinthians 14:
207 1bc6cf72ea70 paused at 23:30 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 206 diff changeset	258
208 b1f88292d482 end of TPA talking head day 2 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 207 diff changeset	259 29 Let two or three prophets speak, and let the others weigh what
b1f88292d482 end of TPA talking head day 2 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 207 diff changeset	260 is said.
b1f88292d482 end of TPA talking head day 2 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 207 diff changeset	261
b1f88292d482 end of TPA talking head day 2 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 207 diff changeset	262 30 If a revelation is made to someone else sitting nearby, let
b1f88292d482 end of TPA talking head day 2 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 207 diff changeset	263 the first person be silent.
b1f88292d482 end of TPA talking head day 2 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 207 diff changeset	264
b1f88292d482 end of TPA talking head day 2 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 207 diff changeset	265 31 For you can all prophesy one by one, so that all may learn and
b1f88292d482 end of TPA talking head day 2 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 207 diff changeset	266 all be encouraged.
b1f88292d482 end of TPA talking head day 2 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 207 diff changeset	267
b1f88292d482 end of TPA talking head day 2 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 207 diff changeset	268 32 And the spirits of prophets are subject to the prophets, [NRSV]
b1f88292d482 end of TPA talking head day 2 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 207 diff changeset	269
b1f88292d482 end of TPA talking head day 2 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 207 diff changeset	270 Listen with the same spirit as what is being said...
b1f88292d482 end of TPA talking head day 2 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 207 diff changeset	271
b1f88292d482 end of TPA talking head day 2 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 207 diff changeset	272 The priesthood of all the faithful 1 Peter 2:
b1f88292d482 end of TPA talking head day 2 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 207 diff changeset	273
b1f88292d482 end of TPA talking head day 2 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 207 diff changeset	274 9 But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation,
b1f88292d482 end of TPA talking head day 2 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 207 diff changeset	275
b1f88292d482 end of TPA talking head day 2 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 207 diff changeset	276 Doesn't last: ref. pressures above, _and_ conflict within[/between]
b1f88292d482 end of TPA talking head day 2 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 207 diff changeset	277 the communities, bishops 'overseers' and deacons 'servants'
b1f88292d482 end of TPA talking head day 2 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 207 diff changeset	278 emerge by the end of the NT era.
b1f88292d482 end of TPA talking head day 2 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 207 diff changeset	279
b1f88292d482 end of TPA talking head day 2 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 207 diff changeset	280 Prophecy is unpredictable, elusive: importance of community in
b1f88292d482 end of TPA talking head day 2 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 207 diff changeset	281 discernment, emerging in Paul, prophetic testing, what builds up the community.
b1f88292d482 end of TPA talking head day 2 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 207 diff changeset	282
b1f88292d482 end of TPA talking head day 2 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 207 diff changeset	283 -----
b1f88292d482 end of TPA talking head day 2 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 207 diff changeset	284
b1f88292d482 end of TPA talking head day 2 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 207 diff changeset	285 The problem of discernment emerges: The development of the Spirit-led
b1f88292d482 end of TPA talking head day 2 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 207 diff changeset	286 life, but Which of the developments are distortions, which are truly
b1f88292d482 end of TPA talking head day 2 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 207 diff changeset	287 spirit-led
b1f88292d482 end of TPA talking head day 2 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 207 diff changeset	288
209 59f4ab0279f7 End of part I Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 208 diff changeset	289 -----Discussion-------
59f4ab0279f7 End of part I Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 208 diff changeset	290 SM: Wrt the focus being on the person, it's because the _problem_ is with
59f4ab0279f7 End of part I Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 208 diff changeset	291 humanity, the Fall, (ref. Nayler and the Eastern church)
59f4ab0279f7 End of part I Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 208 diff changeset	292
59f4ab0279f7 End of part I Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 208 diff changeset	293 TPA: We are not separate from Creation, and when things go wrong it has
59f4ab0279f7 End of part I Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 208 diff changeset	294 _cosmic_ significance: if the image of God is lost in us, that's a
59f4ab0279f7 End of part I Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 208 diff changeset	295 fundamental problem.
59f4ab0279f7 End of part I Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 208 diff changeset	296
59f4ab0279f7 End of part I Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 208 diff changeset	297 BPD: What happens to Heaven on Earth as the pressure builds?
59f4ab0279f7 End of part I Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 208 diff changeset	298
59f4ab0279f7 End of part I Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 208 diff changeset	299 TPA: That leads to serious questions about how Jesus is understood.
59f4ab0279f7 End of part I Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 208 diff changeset	300 By John, Jesus has been considerably elevated ("my Lord and my God").
59f4ab0279f7 End of part I Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 208 diff changeset	301 The earliest Christianity as "living the Spirit-led life" is somehow
59f4ab0279f7 End of part I Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 208 diff changeset	302 overshadowed by the role of faith in Jesus -> you will have eternal
59f4ab0279f7 End of part I Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 208 diff changeset	303 life. The conflict makes the focus be on preservation rather than
59f4ab0279f7 End of part I Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 208 diff changeset	304 growth. Keeping, protecting, holding the community.
59f4ab0279f7 End of part I Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 208 diff changeset	305
59f4ab0279f7 End of part I Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 208 diff changeset	306 SM: We need to be ordered in order to survive. Parallel with early
59f4ab0279f7 End of part I Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 208 diff changeset	307 Friends. Accommodating to the world is precisely what compromises the
59f4ab0279f7 End of part I Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 208 diff changeset	308 vision. "They were possessed of the Spirit, and lost it" vs. "They
59f4ab0279f7 End of part I Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 208 diff changeset	309 were crazy, and then settled down" Early Christians, and early
59f4ab0279f7 End of part I Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 208 diff changeset	310 Friends.
59f4ab0279f7 End of part I Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 208 diff changeset	311
59f4ab0279f7 End of part I Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 208 diff changeset	312 TPA: The tension is there, in the NT, between the focus being on
59f4ab0279f7 End of part I Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 208 diff changeset	313 living the Spirit-led life, or being extraordinarily devoted to Jesus.
59f4ab0279f7 End of part I Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 208 diff changeset	314 "If you start only with Jesus's divinity, that's a fixed point: it
59f4ab0279f7 End of part I Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 208 diff changeset	315 [the NT] doesn't reveal its truth".
59f4ab0279f7 End of part I Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 208 diff changeset	316
59f4ab0279f7 End of part I Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 208 diff changeset	317 BPD: So is the problem that they didn't have, as it were, Fox and
59f4ab0279f7 End of part I Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 208 diff changeset	318 Fell, to take things in hand and lead them forward?
59f4ab0279f7 End of part I Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 208 diff changeset	319
59f4ab0279f7 End of part I Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 208 diff changeset	320 TPA: Hmm. The network is there, there are links between the
59f4ab0279f7 End of part I Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 208 diff changeset	321 communities, Paul is travelling, others are too. And there are things
59f4ab0279f7 End of part I Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 208 diff changeset	322 that are shared/persist, e.g. Jesus, and the life in the Spirit, but
59f4ab0279f7 End of part I Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 208 diff changeset	323 dealing with the world is less systematic, the problem [of outside
59f4ab0279f7 End of part I Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 208 diff changeset	324 pressure] becomes more acute. This leads towards hierarchy and an
59f4ab0279f7 End of part I Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 208 diff changeset	325 authority structure, centred on Rome by the end of the 1st century.
59f4ab0279f7 End of part I Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 208 diff changeset	326 You have the Bishop of Rome writing to the community in Corinth in
59f4ab0279f7 End of part I Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 208 diff changeset	327 95CE.
59f4ab0279f7 End of part I Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 208 diff changeset	328
59f4ab0279f7 End of part I Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 208 diff changeset	329 SM: Parallel with the shift of power from Swarthmore Hall to London,
59f4ab0279f7 End of part I Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 208 diff changeset	330 with the male Elders in the Second-Day Morning Meeting controlling
59f4ab0279f7 End of part I Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 208 diff changeset	331 what can be published in the Quaker name. You see the need to control
59f4ab0279f7 End of part I Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 208 diff changeset	332 the public image.
59f4ab0279f7 End of part I Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 208 diff changeset	333
59f4ab0279f7 End of part I Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 208 diff changeset	334 TPA, responding to BPD: You see this in how Jesus goes about his work:
59f4ab0279f7 End of part I Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 208 diff changeset	335 It's not [Gnostic] "we know and you don't", rather "the only way you
59f4ab0279f7 End of part I Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 208 diff changeset	336 can come to this is by seeing it yourself", "there's no bit of
59f4ab0279f7 End of part I Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 208 diff changeset	337 teaching that is going to do this [for you]", difficult, being really
59f4ab0279f7 End of part I Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 208 diff changeset	338 creative: Parables are _not neat_, they're provocative.
59f4ab0279f7 End of part I Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 208 diff changeset	339
59f4ab0279f7 End of part I Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 208 diff changeset	340 SM: [In a group where] two or three people had had significant
59f4ab0279f7 End of part I Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 208 diff changeset	341 transformative spiritual experiences, and they felt that it isolated
59f4ab0279f7 End of part I Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 208 diff changeset	342 them from their communities, where no-one else had had that...
59f4ab0279f7 End of part I Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 208 diff changeset	343
59f4ab0279f7 End of part I Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 208 diff changeset	344 [Brilliant, speaking with the prophetic voice, post from Linda
59f4ab0279f7 End of part I Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> parents: 208 diff changeset	345 Garrett: https://moodle.woodbrooke.org.uk/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=14564]

Mercurial > hg > rsof

annotate HeavenOnEarth/notes.txt @ 209:59f4ab0279f7