--- a/HeavenOnEarth/notes.txt	Thu Jun 17 22:42:15 2021 +0100
+++ b/HeavenOnEarth/notes.txt	Thu Jun 24 22:32:33 2021 +0100
@@ -286,4 +286,60 @@
 life, but Which of the developments are distortions, which are truly
 spirit-led
 
-Pause at [38:05]
+-----Discussion-------
+SM: Wrt the focus being on the person, it's because the _problem_ is with
+humanity, the Fall, (ref. Nayler and the Eastern church)
+
+TPA: We are not separate from Creation, and when things go wrong it has
+_cosmic_ significance:  if the image of God is lost in us, that's a
+fundamental problem.
+
+BPD: What happens to Heaven on Earth as the pressure builds?
+
+TPA: That leads to serious questions about how Jesus is understood.
+By John, Jesus has been considerably elevated ("my Lord and my God").
+The earliest Christianity as "living the Spirit-led life" is somehow
+overshadowed by the role of faith in Jesus -> you will have eternal
+life.  The conflict makes the focus be on preservation rather than
+growth.  Keeping, protecting, holding the community.
+
+SM: We need to be ordered in order to survive.  Parallel with early
+Friends.  Accommodating to the world is precisely what compromises the
+vision.  "They were possessed of the Spirit, and lost it" vs. "They
+were crazy, and then settled down"  Early Christians, and early
+Friends.
+
+TPA: The tension is there, in the NT, between the focus being on
+living the Spirit-led life, or being extraordinarily devoted to Jesus.
+"If you start only with Jesus's divinity, that's a fixed point: it
+[the NT] doesn't reveal its truth".
+
+BPD: So is the problem that they didn't have, as it were, Fox and
+Fell, to take things in hand and lead them forward?
+
+TPA: Hmm. The network is there, there are links between the
+communities, Paul is travelling, others are too.  And there are things
+that are shared/persist, e.g. Jesus, and the life in the Spirit, but
+dealing with the world is less systematic, the problem [of outside
+pressure] becomes more acute.  This leads towards hierarchy and an
+authority structure, centred on Rome by the end of the 1st century.
+You have the Bishop of Rome writing to the community in Corinth in
+95CE.
+
+SM: Parallel with the shift of power from Swarthmore Hall to London,
+with the male Elders in the Second-Day Morning Meeting controlling
+what can be published in the Quaker name.  You see the need to control
+the public image.
+
+TPA, responding to BPD: You see this in how Jesus goes about his work:
+It's not [Gnostic] "we know and you don't", rather "the only way you
+can come to this is by seeing it yourself", "there's no bit of
+teaching that is going to do this [for you]", difficult, being really
+creative:  Parables are _not neat_, they're provocative.
+
+SM: [In a group where] two or three people had had significant
+transformative spiritual experiences, and they felt that it isolated
+them from their communities, where no-one else had had that...
+
+[Brilliant, speaking with the prophetic voice, post from Linda
+ Garrett: https://moodle.woodbrooke.org.uk/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=14564]