--- a/Ballard_2024-06-11.txt	Thu Jun 13 13:10:55 2024 +0100
+++ b/Ballard_2024-06-11.txt	Thu Jun 13 17:05:39 2024 +0100
@@ -1,8 +1,9 @@
 Henry Thompson and Jane Ditchfield met with Mark Ballard in his home
 on the evening of 11 June 2024
 
-During our opening worship Henry read from QF&P 19.21 (Robert Barclay)
-"... I felt a secret power ... I became thus knit and united unto them"
+During our opening worship Henry read from Quaker Faith & Practice
+19.21 (Robert Barclay) "... I felt a secret power ... I became thus
+knit and united unto them"
 
 Mark was an undergraduate at the University of Edinburgh, in early
 1990s.  He moved into a new flat, and although he had agreed to take
@@ -24,7 +25,7 @@
 He moved to Portobello in 2009 and joined the very new Meeting in Mary
 Jane and Alastair's home.  Soon he realised he had shifted from
 "going to" Central Edinburgh to being "a part of" Portobello and
-Musselborough.  That meant getting much more involved in helping to
+Musselburgh.  That meant getting much more involved in helping to
 keep the Meeting going.
 
 He likes the "secret power" quote, it reflects his own experience.
@@ -50,11 +51,11 @@
 here today.
 
 He recognised then that Meeting for Church Affairs is a vital part of
-being a Quaker, and that meant he was now ready to not just attend LM and AM,
-but to attend _as a Member_.
+being a Quaker, and that meant he was now ready to not just attend
+Local Meeting and Area Meeting, but to attend _as a Member_.
 
 Mark has a long involvement in anarchist activities, and that may seem
-to be at odds with Quaker goverance.  He quoted "the wheels of God
+to be at odds with Quaker governance.  He quoted "the wheels of God
 grind slow, but exceedingly fine".  Quaker business is very _slow_.
 The call to minister, right here, right now, without any
 qualification, feels very different to him.
@@ -62,38 +63,69 @@
 Mark has a standup comedy routine that includes a "How many Quakers
 does it take to change a lightbulb" joke.
 
-He brought us back to the  "secret power" and "knitted in" quote, and
-recalled that at first he thought he was coming to a gathering of friendly people who were
-a bit spiritual, and it took a while, years in fact, to detect the secret
-seeking for spirtual guidance that we shared.  You're not just sitting
-with a bunch of like-minded people, rather you may find what someone
-else's spiritual path may not be going where yours is.  But that's
-actually a very important aspect of Quakerism for him.
+He brought us back to the "secret power" and "knitted in" quote, and
+recalled that at first he thought he was coming to a gathering of
+friendly people who were a bit spiritual, and it took a while, years
+in fact, to detect the secret seeking for spiritual guidance that we
+shared.  You're not just sitting with a bunch of like-minded people,
+rather you may find what someone else's spiritual path may not be
+going where yours is.  But that's actually a very important aspect of
+Quakerism for him.  So yes, he has come to see that Right Ordering
+does belong as a religious test for being Quaker.
+
+
+Meeting for Worship and Meeting for Church Affairs are a great
+resolution of the Protestant dilemma, that follows from the removal of
+the barrier between God and us.
+
+All three of us shared some thoughts about the meaning of Membership
+and where it fits in our Quaker vision of decision making in worship.
+
+Mark's particular contribution to this started by telling us about a specific
+personal experience that he shares regularly when leading an
+Environmental Protest Workshop on decision making.  He contrasted it with
+normal democratic process, and the anarchist consensus decision
+process.  In preparation for a particular collective non-violent
+action, it was crucial that all the participants agreed to cede authority to
+one particular person in the group to make the call to bring the action to an
+end.  This amounted to all of them agreeing that "to make us safe, you
+take this decision for all of
+us and it will be, by definition, right: no discussion, we will just
+end the action immediately you say so".
+
+So the same for Meeting for Church Affairs: even if you aren't
+there, you uphold them for the decision they made.
 
-Meeting for Worship and the  are a great resolution of the Protestant dilemma,
-that there is no barrier between God and us.
-Right Ordering does belong as a religious test for being Quaker.
-[HT and MB discuss theory of membership]
-Environmental Protest Workshop on decision making, democratic process,
-anarchist consensus decision process, ceding authority to someone in a
-protest in order to make us safe, you take it for all of us and it is
-by definition right.  So the same for MCA: you aren't there, you
-uphold them for the decision the make.
-JD: I agree about the respnsibilty/rights relationship, but you can
-    also take initiative [ref joke]
-MB: Musselb members are interested in a 3rd weekly meeting, and
-although I'd rather that didn't happen, I would uphold them and attend
-if they decide to go ahead.  Just because I don't want to organise it
-doesn't mean I won't support them if they do.
-[A complicated history]
-MB: My love of Quakers, ref. Anna and the Green Party story.  There
-was a MFA about same-sex marriage, when (before York) a male couple had asked
-for a ceremony of commitment, and it was a difficult MFA.  And the SGP
-was in some internal difficulties, where when you won a vote on a
-problematic issue, if you 'won' the vote, you tried you best to get
-rid of the losers, whereas the MCA worked very hard to support _all_
-the people there, to respect their pain and acknowledge it, respecting
+Mark described a Quaker case where a decision was probably going
+support a project which he would have preferred not to see happen:
+"Although I'd rather that didn't happen, I would uphold them and
+[participate] if they decide to go ahead.  Just because I don't want
+to organise it doesn't mean I won't support them if they do".
+
+He offered another example contrasting his love of Quakers and
+involvement with the Green Party, recalling the Meeting for Church Affairs in Central
+Edinburgh which had to decide a response to  Derek McLean and Mal
+Cowtan's request for a ceremony of commitment in Victoria Terrace. This
+was quite some time _before_ Yearly Meeting at York adopted a clear
+position on marriage as being "equally available to same-sex and
+opposite-sex couples".  It was a difficult Meeting for Church Affairs,
+which did eventually find unity in agreement to hold the ceremony.
+
+Now when the Scottish Green Party was in some internal disagreement
+about an issue, and it was voted on, then if you 'won' the vote, you
+tried your best to present a united front by getting rid of the
+'losers'.
+
+Whereas that Meeting for Church Affairs worked very hard to support
+_all_ the people who were there, _including_ those who were unhappy
+with the result, to respect their pain and acknowledge it, respecting
 that of God in the people on the "other side".
-We are happy to recommend membership for MB, it's "a full stop on my
-process of discernment on whether I should become a Member" and it
-fills me with joy to join in the recommendation.
+
+We are happy to recommend membership for Mark Ballard.  Mark said
+"This is a full stop on my process of discernment on whether I should
+become a Member" and "it fills me with joy to join in the
+recommendation".
+
+Mark Ballard
+Jane Ditchfield
+Henry Thompson