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comparison HeavenOnEarth/notes.txt @ 209:59f4ab0279f7
End of part I
| author | Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk> |
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| date | Thu, 24 Jun 2021 22:32:33 +0100 |
| parents | b1f88292d482 |
| children | 89a7691c3868 |
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| 208:b1f88292d482 | 209:59f4ab0279f7 |
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| 284 | 284 |
| 285 The problem of discernment emerges: The development of the Spirit-led | 285 The problem of discernment emerges: The development of the Spirit-led |
| 286 life, but Which of the developments are distortions, which are truly | 286 life, but Which of the developments are distortions, which are truly |
| 287 spirit-led | 287 spirit-led |
| 288 | 288 |
| 289 Pause at [38:05] | 289 -----Discussion------- |
| 290 SM: Wrt the focus being on the person, it's because the _problem_ is with | |
| 291 humanity, the Fall, (ref. Nayler and the Eastern church) | |
| 292 | |
| 293 TPA: We are not separate from Creation, and when things go wrong it has | |
| 294 _cosmic_ significance: if the image of God is lost in us, that's a | |
| 295 fundamental problem. | |
| 296 | |
| 297 BPD: What happens to Heaven on Earth as the pressure builds? | |
| 298 | |
| 299 TPA: That leads to serious questions about how Jesus is understood. | |
| 300 By John, Jesus has been considerably elevated ("my Lord and my God"). | |
| 301 The earliest Christianity as "living the Spirit-led life" is somehow | |
| 302 overshadowed by the role of faith in Jesus -> you will have eternal | |
| 303 life. The conflict makes the focus be on preservation rather than | |
| 304 growth. Keeping, protecting, holding the community. | |
| 305 | |
| 306 SM: We need to be ordered in order to survive. Parallel with early | |
| 307 Friends. Accommodating to the world is precisely what compromises the | |
| 308 vision. "They were possessed of the Spirit, and lost it" vs. "They | |
| 309 were crazy, and then settled down" Early Christians, and early | |
| 310 Friends. | |
| 311 | |
| 312 TPA: The tension is there, in the NT, between the focus being on | |
| 313 living the Spirit-led life, or being extraordinarily devoted to Jesus. | |
| 314 "If you start only with Jesus's divinity, that's a fixed point: it | |
| 315 [the NT] doesn't reveal its truth". | |
| 316 | |
| 317 BPD: So is the problem that they didn't have, as it were, Fox and | |
| 318 Fell, to take things in hand and lead them forward? | |
| 319 | |
| 320 TPA: Hmm. The network is there, there are links between the | |
| 321 communities, Paul is travelling, others are too. And there are things | |
| 322 that are shared/persist, e.g. Jesus, and the life in the Spirit, but | |
| 323 dealing with the world is less systematic, the problem [of outside | |
| 324 pressure] becomes more acute. This leads towards hierarchy and an | |
| 325 authority structure, centred on Rome by the end of the 1st century. | |
| 326 You have the Bishop of Rome writing to the community in Corinth in | |
| 327 95CE. | |
| 328 | |
| 329 SM: Parallel with the shift of power from Swarthmore Hall to London, | |
| 330 with the male Elders in the Second-Day Morning Meeting controlling | |
| 331 what can be published in the Quaker name. You see the need to control | |
| 332 the public image. | |
| 333 | |
| 334 TPA, responding to BPD: You see this in how Jesus goes about his work: | |
| 335 It's not [Gnostic] "we know and you don't", rather "the only way you | |
| 336 can come to this is by seeing it yourself", "there's no bit of | |
| 337 teaching that is going to do this [for you]", difficult, being really | |
| 338 creative: Parables are _not neat_, they're provocative. | |
| 339 | |
| 340 SM: [In a group where] two or three people had had significant | |
| 341 transformative spiritual experiences, and they felt that it isolated | |
| 342 them from their communities, where no-one else had had that... | |
| 343 | |
| 344 [Brilliant, speaking with the prophetic voice, post from Linda | |
| 345 Garrett: https://moodle.woodbrooke.org.uk/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=14564] |