# HG changeset patch
# User Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk>
# Date 1711633541 0
# Node ID e27a2f4513a06bd321bb9acfc477335d83d2611c
# Parent  5af552143179a8d7e4e69ae7282f19c347d3cb30
start pblms section

diff -r 5af552143179 -r e27a2f4513a0 QiS/What_are_QiS.txt
--- a/QiS/What_are_QiS.txt	Thu Mar 28 11:08:19 2024 +0000
+++ b/QiS/What_are_QiS.txt	Thu Mar 28 13:45:41 2024 +0000
@@ -1,11 +1,11 @@
 I have struggled at the last two threshing meetings about the proposed
-governing document for Quakers in Scotland (QiS) to adequately convey
-my concerns.  This document attempts to do better, not only with
-respect to what I think is wrong, but also by suggesting how it could
-be fixed.
+governing document (the version of 2024-03-21, hereafter GD) for
+Quakers in Scotland (QiS) to adequately convey my concerns.  In
+writing this I'm attempting to do better, not only with respect to
+what I think is wrong, but also by suggesting how it could be fixed.
 
 It's not short, and there's an even longer appendix of background
-detail, so here's the punchline:
+detail, so here's a summary:
 
   SESAM Trustees should advise SESAM that SESAM _should not_ agree to
   joining QiS without substantial changes to the governing document,
@@ -13,10 +13,60 @@
   relationship explicit, following the model of the governing document
   for Britain Yearly Meeting (the charity).
 
+  An updated GD needs to make explicit provision for the possibility
+  of SESAM-the-church continuing _as_ an Area Meeting while laying
+  down SESAM-the-charity, drawing on the proposed structure for Wales
+  and the Southern Marches. There must be clarity on
+  SESAM-the-church's status with respect to QiS-the-church and thus
+  with respect to the trustees of QiS-the-charity.
 
-Some extensive background, which has informed my thinking.  Thanks to
-Jackie Noltingk, Erica Thomas and Lesley Richards for helpful answers
-to my questions.
+I'll start by identifying the problems I see with the GD, and go on to
+outline the kind of changes I think would improve it, to the point
+where SESAM would support the creation of the QiS-the-charity and
+would join QiS-the-church.
+
+A note on terminology
+
+In their cover letter for the draft GD sent to SESAM Trustees on
+2024-01-06, the QiS-CG says
+
+  "The Options for Scotland group [proposes] that we form a _single
+   charity_ and that we form a _single body_. The idea of a single
+   body clearly needs more work to discern what this might look
+   like. It will take time. That idea is not part of what we are
+   asking you about here." (emphasis added)
+
+Above I used "QiS-the-charity" to refer to such a charity and
+"QiS-the-church" to refer to such a body.  For simplicity, hereafter
+I'll call the former "the SCIO", short for "the Scottish Charitable
+Incorporated Organisation" and the latter "the RSFS", short for "the
+Religious Society of Friends (Quakers) in Scotland".
+
+Problems with the GD
+
+1. The church and the charity
+
+The distinction between the SCIO and the RSFS is explicitly modelled
+on the distinction found in the governing document of "Britain Yearly
+Meeting of the Religious Society of Friends (Quakers) (Britain Yearly
+Meeting)" as registered with the Charity Commission (charity
+no. 1127633).  Britain Yearly Meeting (BYM) is (an English) Charitable
+Incorporated Organisation.  Its governing document defines that
+lengthy name as the charity and "The Religious Society of Friends
+(Quakers) in Britain" as the church.
+
+The GD uses "Quakers in Scotland" (QiS) for both of these, without
+ever explicitly acknowledging that they are distinct.  Sometimes
+context makes clear which they are referring to, but not always.
+
+2. The future of the Area Meeting(s)
+
+
+---------------
+Some extensive background, which has informed my thinking.
+
+Thanks to Jackie Noltingk, Erica Thomas and Lesley Richards for
+helpful answers to my questions.
 
 The General Meeting for Scotland (GM) mailing list were told
 (2023-11-17), in regard to