# HG changeset patch
# User Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk>
# Date 1624829411 -3600
# Node ID 78f233b76245d58e0925d372bea7d5c9ae463d2c
# Parent  3a9b06e42b400222710f7dc4e19724c18ee75585
End of SM part 1, incl. discussion

diff -r 3a9b06e42b40 -r 78f233b76245 HeavenOnEarth/notes.txt
--- a/HeavenOnEarth/notes.txt	Sat Jun 26 23:14:43 2021 +0100
+++ b/HeavenOnEarth/notes.txt	Sun Jun 27 22:30:11 2021 +0100
@@ -352,6 +352,7 @@
 Stuart Masters _The Early Quakers_
 ==========================
 
+--------------- Video 1 ---------
 Mainstream Puritanism at the start of the Quaker period is quite
 straight Calvanism, with predestination of the Elect as the core.
 
@@ -546,4 +547,61 @@
   practices and precepts of men."
   James Nayler _A True Discovery of Faith_ (1654 and 1655)
 
-[paused at 42:30]
+---------------Discussion
+
+BPD: The Jesus event being central?  Not mentioned much?
+
+SM: Early Friends don't divide Jesus and Christ.  They are accused of
+ignoring the historical Jesus.  But it was the Incarnation
+(ref. Patristics) "God became human so that humans could become like
+God".  If it hadn't been for the Incarnation, and the catalyst of
+Pentecost.  It was always the intention that we should be the image of
+God in Creation, and the Incarnation makes it possible again.
+
+Without the outward work [the Incarnation], the inward work wouldn't
+be possible.
+
+BPD: It's Christ has come again, not Jesus has come again?
+
+SM: That depends on whether you think early Friends had an orthodox
+Christology.  Nayler, IMO, is not prepared to separate Christ and
+Jesus.  Once the Word became flesh in Jesus, that's a new reality.
+Calvinist criticism "Jesus is living bodily at the right hand of the
+Father, how could he possibly be in you?".
+
+Quakers are much closer to the Catholic and Lutheran position: the
+ubiquity of Christ, Christ is not limited by time and space.
+
+TPA: What about the early _Christian_ emphasis on the idea that the
+new reality has to be _communicated_, the Apostolic obligation,
+prophecy, we are the ones who are _sent_.
+
+SM: Preaching campaign that was launched in 1654--55 was one of
+greatest evangelical exercises in the history of Christianity.  Not
+"this is a new set of doctrines, which we want you to believe in" but
+"this is an experience that we've had, and you need to join with it as
+well!".  It's full of great joy and fearlessness.  But it wanes by the
+end of the 1650s, as persecution ramps up.  "Why hasn't it spread, why
+aren't they getting on board before the boarding ramp is pulled up"
+
+TPA: So there is a sense among early Friends that there is a
+particular time opening up?  Because that was the case for early
+Christians:  "the time is at hand".  There's an urgency here, this
+_is_ the moment.
+
+SM: Definitely.  Those expectations are very widespread in Puritain
+England in the 1640s and 50s, because of the Civil War, you execute a
+king.
+
+"Get in there quick, it's happening now and you might get left
+behind."
+
+There were people beginning to experience a bit of this in the 1610s
+and 20s, but the effort to bring order to the Anglican Church in the
+1630s (Charles I and Archibishop Laud crack down on all dissent)
+forces this underground (among Anglican clery in many cases), but
+in 1642 the outbreak of the Civil War, and the falling away of the
+power of the Church and censorship in that situation, releases all a
+pent-up explosion of what had been repressed and you get the
+proliferation of sects [including Quakers].
+