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Through Week 1
author Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk>
date Wed, 16 Jun 2021 21:23:53 +0100
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children 1bc6cf72ea70
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205:0c8ce27ba664 206:a3f73cd85834
1 Tim Peat Ashworth: Paul as focussed on the transformation of all
2 creation, originating in the transformation of ourselves. Finding
3 that throughout the NT.
4
5 "The William": There's a big gap in the New Testament narratives: the
6 Romans, the resistance, Masada (73 CE), etc. Why?
7
8 Stuart M: Tension between the quiet, inward worship practice and the
9 noisy, outward, charismatic behaviour it underpinned.
10
11 The struggle to survive post-Restoration plus the failure of the
12 expectation of external transformation put the previous public
13 aspect of Quakerism had to be reined in.
14
15 Barclay gives up on radical equality: God's plan allows for
16 different wealth for different people.
17
18 Branston-Hicks metaphor! Is there still a real labour and birth
19 still to come?
20
21 TPA: But note that in early Christianity the challenge of organisation
22 vs. inspiration leads to an emergence of hierarchy, but that never
23 happened among Friends...
24
25 Ben Dandelion: Fox appealing to "30 minutes of silence" in Revelation,
26 and the inward communion in Revelation 3:20 (?: "Here I am! I stand at
27 the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I
28 will come in and eat with that person, and they with me.").
29
30 Evangelical framing of their situation in the 18th century falls in
31 line with the "sometime in the distance" for the expectation of the
32 2nd Coming
33
34 How can we reframe the idea of Heaven on Earth, reinvent the
35 tradition, to keep the possibility of transformation alive.
36
37 How do we make sense of what is essentially a 2nd coming liturgy?
38
39 If we're waiting for humanity to respond to the opportunity, what
40 will it take for that to happen? [TPA: When we realise there is no
41 alternative]
42
43 TPA: What accounts then for the "20% of London and Bristol were
44 caught up by Quakerism" in the 1650s? BPD: [The context: finding
45 certainity and hope in a catastrophic situation]
46
47 The contrast of "anyone can be saved" with much of what the other
48 churches were saying.
49
50 ----------TPA video 1----------
51
52 Luke: "The Spirit of the Lord is upon me" are Jesus's first public
53 words. Thereafter we don't hear much about the Spirit, but the
54 unspoken sub-text is, wrt Jesus himself: "Look at Jesus: This is what
55 the Spirit-led life looks like". The Spirit gives a foretaste of what
56 is to come... Paul describes the Apostles as 'Ambassadors of life in
57 the Spirit'. Manifesting life in the Spirit as it was in Jesus,
58 because they saw it in him. [Note that this makes Paul's claim to
59 _be_ and Apostle a bit tenuous]
60
61 Early Christian communities: spiritual families ('brother' and 'sister')
62 Boundaries crossed/erased -- manifestations of the Spirit -- but a
63 diversity of gifts. Their community life is manifesting what the
64 Spirit is bringing and will bring.
65
66 Revelation: taking away a veil, now, and coming. Normal way of seeing
67 boundaries between e.g. classes is falling away, seeing things in new
68 ways. Not a new set of teachings, but a new kind of perception [and
69 of living?]
70
71 Crunch time: how much can you rely on this? First conflict over the
72 dietary laws. The Law vs. the new vision. Matthew keeps a strong
73 place for the Law, Jesus as a teacher in the Jewish tradition
74 (radical, but in the same tradition).
75
76 Humanity is to be transformed, and continue, in the Spirit, (and so
77 the whole of Creation is transformed).
78
79 Luke has what Eden Grace described: "Creation waits with eager/anxious expectation"
80 A sense of bringing to birth, with the attendant hint of anxiety.
81 And we have the Spirit as midwife to the change: support with firmness
82
83 Humanity refashioned not just in, but as, the image ('ikon') of God
84
85 And this has to begin with a dying of the old form of life.
86 "_I_ live no longer, but Christ lives in me" [Paul, somewhere]
87
88 TPA (responding to SM): There's a _lot_ about newness in the NT, but
89 it's almost all about people coming into a new understanding of what
90 it is to be human, and not much about seeing the whole of creation in
91 a new way, as early Friends would.
92
93 PBD paraphrasing TPA (responding to BPD): Jesus's resurrection is the
94 _beginning_ of the fulfillment of the prophesy of universal
95 resurrection: "a justification that something major has begun, if if
96 it hasn't been completed".
97
98 TPA (responding so SM 42:10): Was it a time of constant upheaval,
99 heavy oppresive behavious from the occupying Roman forces, etc.? A
100 lot of scholarly debate pro and con on this. Ed Saunders (sp?) yes
101 life was tough, harvests failed, but Roman rule was by-and-large _not_
102 obtrusive, and largely implemented through local intermediaries.
103
104 BPD: Are the Gospels trying, as they tell it, to reconfigure what
105 happened leading up to and in Jesus's crucifixion to fit with new
106 sense of delay [in the Kingdom] [that they were experiencing 20/30
107 years later]?
108
109 The coming of the Spirit to the Gentiles, which happened very quickly,
110 was "the knock-down argument" that the coming resurrection was for
111 _all_ people, not just the (people formerly known as the) Chosen of
112 God.
113
114 ==============Forum discussions==========
115 I need to say something in this thread:
116 https://moodle.woodbrooke.org.uk/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=14517
117 about (FK's reading of) Aquinas's approach to free will and Grace:
118 not just us, not just God, but (a mystical union of) both...
119
120 ---------TPA Video 2-----------
121