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| author | ht |
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| date | Mon, 05 Jan 2009 16:51:38 -0500 |
| parents | 95b3855d61d7 |
| children | 9d70132b8833 |
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| 1 <?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8"?> | 1 <?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8"?> |
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| 4 <html xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml"><head><meta name="copyright" content="Copyright (C) 2007 Henry S. Thompson"/><meta http-equiv="Content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"/><style type="text/css"> | 4 <html xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml"> |
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| 19 div.figure {margin-left: 2em} | 19 {margin-top: 1ex} .byline {font-size: 120%} div.figure |
| 20 div.caption {font-style: italic; font-weight: bold} | 20 {margin-left: 2em} div.caption {font-style: italic; font-weight: |
| 21 </style><title>Future of 7 VT working group: First meeting</title></head><body style="font-family: DejaVu Sans, Arial; background: rgb(254,250,246); font-size: 12pt; width: 20cm; align: center; margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto"> | 21 bold}</style> |
| 22 <div style="text-align: center"> | 22 <title>Future of 7 VT working group: First meeting</title> |
| 23 <h1>Future of 7 VT working group: First meeting</h1> | 23 </head> |
| 24 <div class="byline">This informal summary by Henry S. Thompson, Convenor</div> | 24 <body style="font-family: DejaVu Sans, Arial; background: rgb(254,250,246); font-size: 12pt; width: 20cm; align: center; margin-left: auto; margin-right: auto"> |
| 25 <div class="byline">Held at 7 Victoria Terrace, Edinburgh on 5 January 2009, 7:30 p.m.</div> | 25 |
| 26 </div> | 26 <div style="text-align: center"> |
| 27 | 27 <h1>Future of 7 VT working group: First meeting</h1> |
| 28 <div> | 28 <div class="byline">This informal summary by Henry S. Thompson, |
| 29 <h2>1. Attendance</h2> | 29 Convenor</div> |
| 30 <p>Present: Alison Burnley, Alastair Cameron, Madeleine Harding, Phil Lucas, Brian Mayes, Laurie Naumann, Rufus Reade, | 30 <div class="byline">Held at 7 Victoria Terrace, Edinburgh on 5 |
| 31 Eileen Schott, Don Stubbings, Henry Thompson (in the clerk's chair)</p> | 31 January 2009, 7:30 p.m.</div> |
| 32 </div> | 32 </div> |
| 33 <div> | 33 <div> |
| 34 <h2>2. Introductions</h2> | 34 <h2>1. Attendance</h2> |
| 35 <p>The members of the working group gave brief self-introductions</p> | 35 <p>Present: Alison Burnley, Alastair Cameron, Madeleine Harding, |
| 36 </div> | 36 Phil Lucas, Brian Mayes, Laurie Naumann, Rufus Reade, Eileen |
| 37 <div> | 37 Schott, Don Stubbings, Henry Thompson (in the clerk's chair)</p> |
| 38 <h2>3. Background</h2> | 38 </div> |
| 39 <p>Alastair Cameron, on behalf of Area Meeting gave us | 39 <div> |
| 40 some background:</p> | 40 <h2>2. Introductions</h2> |
| 41 <ul> | 41 <p>The members of the working group gave brief |
| 42 <li>What is our vision for what Quakers need as a physical presence in Edinburgh?</li> | 42 self-introductions</p> |
| 43 <li>This includes the possibility of not having a large central building | 43 </div> |
| 44 of any kind. It's assumed that this would lead to a reduction in expenditure | 44 <div> |
| 45 and effort.</li> | 45 <h2>3. Background</h2> |
| 46 <li>AM looking for renewal of its sense of what its presence in Edinburgh | 46 <p>Alastair Cameron, on behalf of Area Meeting gave us some |
| 47 should be</li> | 47 background:</p> |
| 48 <li>We are on the cusp of a number of substantial items of expenditure, | 48 <ul> |
| 49 which are perhaps a bit difficult to motivate without a clear underlying vision.</li> | 49 <li>What is our vision for what Quakers need as a physical presence |
| 50 </ul> | 50 in Edinburgh?</li> |
| 51 <p>Don Stubbings, who was | 51 <li>This includes the possibility of not having a large central |
| 52 instrumental in raising some of the questions we will be considering:</p> | 52 building of any kind. It's assumed that this would lead to a |
| 53 <ul> | 53 reduction in expenditure and effort.</li> |
| 54 <li>Don has served for many years on Fabric and Maintenance</li> | 54 <li>AM looking for renewal of its sense of what its presence in |
| 55 <li>Costs coming: | 55 Edinburgh should be</li> |
| 56 <ul> | 56 <li>We are on the cusp of a number of substantial items of |
| 57 <li>Toilets need renewed</li> | 57 expenditure, which are perhaps a bit difficult to motivate without |
| 58 <li>Heating is a problem</li> | 58 a clear underlying vision.</li> |
| 59 <li>The flats are an ongoing financial drain</li> | 59 </ul> |
| 60 <li>The kitchen is scheduled for a refit</li> | 60 <p>Don Stubbings, who was instrumental in raising some of the |
| 61 <li>The roof is being refurbished, and is involving more and costing | 61 questions we will be considering:</p> |
| 62 more than expected, taking up most of our cash reserves</li> | 62 <ul> |
| 63 <li>Children's space restructuring? Interacts with the kitchen refit.</li> | 63 <li>Don has served for many years on Fabric and Maintenance</li> |
| 64 </ul> | 64 <li>Costs coming: |
| 65 </li> | 65 <ul> |
| 66 </ul> | 66 <li>Toilets need renewed</li> |
| 67 <p>The above might add up to 200K GBP over the next few years. The expense | 67 <li>Heating is a problem</li> |
| 68 of the roof repairs stimulated a consideration of whether we should be | 68 <li>The flats are an ongoing financial drain</li> |
| 69 more-or-less uncritically committing to maintaining an old building which will | 69 <li>The kitchen is scheduled for a refit</li> |
| 70 likely continue to require substantial investment. This eventually led to a | 70 <li>The roof is being refurbished, and is involving more and |
| 71 presentation to AM in August. In the twenty years since we purchased 7VT, no | 71 costing more than expected, taking up most of our cash |
| 72 overall review of our use of the premises has been undertaken.</p> | 72 reserves</li> |
| 73 <p>Our circumstances have changed in many ways over that time, including | 73 <li>Children's space restructuring? Interacts with the kitchen |
| 74 changes in external regulation: Child Protection, Health and Safety, Food | 74 refit.</li> |
| 75 Sanitation. The rental of our premises has also evolved, alongside an increase | 75 </ul></li> |
| 76 in the number of other churches etc. who make premises available. The issue of | 76 </ul> |
| 77 balance between income generated and operating costs, given our commitment to | 77 <p>The above might add up to 200K GBP over the next few years. The |
| 78 charging very low rents for Quaker groups/other groups with certain specified qualities.</p> | 78 expense of the roof repairs stimulated a consideration of whether |
| 79 <p>At the same time, the awareness of many Quaker users of the premises does | 79 we should be more-or-less uncritically committing to maintaining an |
| 80 not extend beyond Meeting for Worship on a Sunday.</p> | 80 old building which will likely continue to require substantial |
| 81 <p>One view of the balance sheet is that we are running at a 20K/annum | 81 investment. This eventually led to a presentation to AM in August. |
| 82 deficit. Some members clearly see this as an acceptable cost, others think at | 82 In the twenty years since we purchased 7VT, no overall review of |
| 83 the very least the AM needs to explicitly acknowledge this.</p> | 83 our use of the premises has been undertaken.</p> |
| 84 <p>The possibility of moving towards 7VT as the Scottish equivalent of | 84 <p>Our circumstances have changed in many ways over that time, |
| 85 Friends House has been raised, and deserves to be re-considered, without losing | 85 including changes in external regulation: Child Protection, Health |
| 86 sight of the history of our previous, failed, attempt to do so.</p> | 86 and Safety, Food Sanitation. The rental of our premises has also |
| 87 <p>Trustees have initiated their own review, and put a hold on all capital | 87 evolved, alongside an increase in the number of other churches etc. |
| 88 expenditure until this group has reported.</p> | 88 who make premises available. The issue of balance between income |
| 89 <p>Some of these issues interact with aspects of the role of the paid | 89 generated and operating costs, given our commitment to charging |
| 90 meetinghouse staff.</p> | 90 very low rents for Quaker groups/other groups with certain |
| 91 <p>One way of looking at the financial side is to see the deficit as the | 91 specified qualities.</p> |
| 92 rent that AM pays for the use we get from the building.</p> | 92 <p>At the same time, the awareness of many Quaker users of the |
| 93 <p>Phil Lucas recalled that on his and Pat's arrival as Wardens in 1994, the | 93 premises does not extend beyond Meeting for Worship on a |
| 94 building was running at a loss, but they were given the explicit goal of making | 94 Sunday.</p> |
| 95 the building pay for itself. He believes that the revenue account balanced | 95 <p>One view of the balance sheet is that we are running at a |
| 96 from around 1997. It's the capital expenditures which provoke the deficit</p> | 96 20K/annum deficit. Some members clearly see this as an acceptable |
| 97 <p>Henry Thompson summarised that we have to both get clear what the actual | 97 cost, others think at the very least the AM needs to explicitly |
| 98 numbers are, and then decide how we are going to <i>treat</i> those | 98 acknowledge this.</p> |
| 99 numbers, and that we have a lot of choices in how we arrive at a summary to | 99 <p>The possibility of moving towards 7VT as the Scottish equivalent |
| 100 underpin our search for a vision. Rufus Read suggested that a cash flow | 100 of Friends House has been raised, and deserves to be re-considered, |
| 101 forecast would be a tool to help in this regard.</p> | 101 without losing sight of the history of our previous, failed, |
| 102 <p>Henry Thompson and others attempted to recall the reasons we sold Stafford | 102 attempt to do so.</p> |
| 103 Street and bought 7 Victoria Terrace:</p> | 103 <p>Trustees have initiated their own review, and put a hold on all |
| 104 <ul> | 104 capital expenditure until this group has reported.</p> |
| 105 <li>Meeting room itself was an awkward L-shaped space, on first floor, | 105 <p>Some of these issues interact with aspects of the role of the |
| 106 up a narrow staircase—some elderly/infirm friends had stopped attending;</li> | 106 paid meetinghouse staff.</p> |
| 107 <li>Need for larger/better children and teenagers space;</li> | 107 <p>One way of looking at the financial side is to see the deficit |
| 108 <li>Desire | 108 as the rent that AM pays for the use we get from the building.</p> |
| 109 to share facilities with other groups</li> | 109 <p>Phil Lucas recalled that on his and Pat's arrival as Wardens in |
| 110 <li>We explored non-central locations, came | 110 1994, the building was running at a loss, but they were given the |
| 111 to view a central location as not only an equal tax on everyone in terms of | 111 explicit goal of making the building pay for itself. He believes |
| 112 transport, but also a value in itself as an opportunity for witness.</li> | 112 that the revenue account balanced from around 1997. It's the |
| 113 </ul> | 113 capital expenditures which provoke the deficit</p> |
| 114 </div> | 114 <p>Henry Thompson summarised that we have to both get clear what |
| 115 <div> | 115 the actual numbers are, and then decide how we are going to |
| 116 <h2>4. Topics for next meeting</h2> | 116 <i>treat</i>those numbers, and that we have a lot of choices in how |
| 117 <ul> | 117 we arrive at a summary to underpin our search for a vision. Rufus |
| 118 <li>Questions we might ask;</li> | 118 Read suggested that a cash flow forecast would be a tool to help in |
| 119 <li>Whom we might ask, and who will take responsibility for getting | 119 this regard.</p> |
| 120 <p>Henry Thompson and others attempted to recall the reasons we | |
| 121 sold Stafford Street and bought 7 Victoria Terrace:</p> | |
| 122 <ul> | |
| 123 <li>Meeting room itself was an awkward L-shaped space, on first | |
| 124 floor, up a narrow staircase—some elderly/infirm friends had | |
| 125 stopped attending;</li> | |
| 126 <li>Need for larger/better children and teenagers space;</li> | |
| 127 <li>Desire to share facilities with other groups</li> | |
| 128 <li>We explored non-central locations, came to view a central | |
| 129 location as not only an equal tax on everyone in terms of | |
| 130 transport, but also a value in itself as an opportunity for | |
| 131 witness.</li> | |
| 132 </ul> | |
| 133 </div> | |
| 134 <div> | |
| 135 <h2>4. Topics for next meeting</h2> | |
| 136 <ul> | |
| 137 <li>Questions we might ask;</li> | |
| 138 <li>Whom we might ask, and who will take responsibility for getting | |
| 120 answers from them;</li> | 139 answers from them;</li> |
| 121 <li>What examples might we look at;</li> | 140 <li>What examples might we look at;</li> |
| 122 <li>Getting a cashflow forecast and a cashflow history</li> | 141 <li>Getting a cashflow forecast and a cashflow history</li> |
| 123 </ul> | 142 </ul> |
| 124 </div> | 143 </div> |
| 125 <div> | 144 <div> |
| 126 <h2>5. Next Meeting</h2> | 145 <h2>5. Next Meeting</h2> |
| 127 <p>Our next meeting will be at 7:30 p.m. on Tuesday 13th January at 7 | 146 <p>Our next meeting will be at 7:30 p.m. on Tuesday 13th January at |
| 128 Victoria Terrace.</p> | 147 7 Victoria Terrace.</p> |
| 129 </div> | 148 </div> |
| 130 | 149 </body> |
| 131 </body></html> | 150 </html> |
