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date Mon, 09 Feb 2009 15:32:24 -0500
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3 <!DOCTYPE doc SYSTEM "../../../lib/xml/doc.dtd" [ 3 <!DOCTYPE doc SYSTEM "../../../lib/xml/doc.dtd" [
4 <!ENTITY pound '&#163;'> 4 <!ENTITY pound '&#163;'>
5 ]> 5 ]>
6 <doc> 6 <doc>
7 <head> 7 <head>
8 <title>Future of 7 VT working group: Third meeting</title> 8 <title>Future of 7 VT working group: Fourth meeting</title>
9 <author>This informal summary by Henry S. Thompson, Convenor</author> 9 <author>This informal summary by Henry S. Thompson, Convenor</author>
10 <date>Held at 7 Victoria Terrace, Edinburgh on 8 February 2009, 7:30 p.m.</date> 10 <date>Held at 7 Victoria Terrace, Edinburgh on 8 February 2009, 7:30 p.m.</date>
11 </head> 11 </head>
12 <body> 12 <body>
13 <div> 13 <div>
16 Brian Mayes, Laurie Naumann, Rufus Reade, 16 Brian Mayes, Laurie Naumann, Rufus Reade,
17 Eileen Schott, Henry Thompson (in the clerk's chair)</p> 17 Eileen Schott, Henry Thompson (in the clerk's chair)</p>
18 </div> 18 </div>
19 <div> 19 <div>
20 <title>Input from the co-Manager</title> 20 <title>Input from the co-Manager</title>
21 <p>Looking back, at the time of the original purchase, of the projected 250KGBP spend only 150KGBP 21 <p>Looking back, at the time of the original purchase, of the projected
22 250,000 GBP spend planned for upgrading the building only 150,000 GBP
22 was spent, and again in 1993 a review suggested some major work which wasn't done.</p> 23 was spent, and again in 1993 a review suggested some major work which wasn't done.</p>
23 <p>Lettings have gone down this year because of the loss of two major lettings: The Traverse, who 24 <p>Lettings have gone down this year because of the loss of two major lettings: The Traverse, who
24 moved to their own premises; the other the City of Edinburgh who have cut back on external training. 25 moved to their own premises; and the City of Edinburgh, who have cut back on external training.
25 Prospects this year don't look great on that front.</p> 26 Prospects this year don't look great on that front.</p>
26 <p>At interview, we were asked to "be a Quaker presence". Our day begins at 0745, and the Meeting 27 <p>At interview, we were asked to "be a Quaker presence", and that's what we
28 try to do. Our day begins at 0745, and the Meeting
27 House is often open until 2130 or 2200. Sue and Anthony average about 60hrs/week, although only 29 House is often open until 2130 or 2200. Sue and Anthony average about 60hrs/week, although only
28 contracted for 37.5.</p> 30 contracted for 37.5.</p>
29 <p>Staff costs increased this year in part because of the necessity of allowing for holiday pay for 31 <p>Staff costs increased this year in part because of the necessity of allowing for holiday pay for
30 part-time staff (in arrears).</p> 32 part-time staff (in arrears).</p>
31 <p>The Buxtons' vision for 7VT is as a centre for Quakers in Edinburgh or even in Scotland. The 33 <p>The Buxtons' vision for 7VT is as a centre for Quakers in Edinburgh or even in Scotland. The
32 increase in visibility we have worked for is part of this: making the entry to the ground floor and 34 increase in visibility we have worked for is part of this: making the entry to the ground floor and
33 the Festival Cafe more evidently Quaker.</p> 35 the Festival Cafe more evidently Quaker.</p>
34 <p>The Festival venue doesn't actually net any money: we're closed for six weeks as far as bookings 36 <p>The Festival venue doesn't actually net any money: we're closed for six weeks as far as bookings
35 is concerned -- if we were not a venue, we <emph>might</emph> get income from e.g. rehersal space 37 is concerned -- if we were not a venue, we <emph>might</emph> get income from e.g. rehersal space
36 lettings. It has provoked the food hygiene changes, and are leading to the upgrade. For tea and 38 lettings. So overall we lose money for that six weeks, even though staff costs are lower, as we have four
37 coffee only, we could do without the kitchen upgrade. A redesign there would enable a new letting
38 space. So overall we lose money for that six weeks, even though staff costs are lower, as we have four
39 venue managers (Sue, Anthony, Tom and Tam [as convenor of the Festival C'ttee], one of whom is always 39 venue managers (Sue, Anthony, Tom and Tam [as convenor of the Festival C'ttee], one of whom is always
40 on duty. Only when Tam is on do we have staff cover as well.</p> 40 on duty. Only when Tam is on do we have staff cover as well.</p>
41 <p>The cooking involved in the Festival Cafe has provoked the food hygiene changes, and are leading to the upgrade. For tea and
42 coffee only, we could do without the kitchen upgrade. A redesign there would enable a new letting
43 space.</p>
41 <p>The kitchen upgrade is currently estimated at 30KGBP, the toilets 50KGBP. Replacing the cookers 44 <p>The kitchen upgrade is currently estimated at 30KGBP, the toilets 50KGBP. Replacing the cookers
42 means adding ventolation, all stainless-steel. Decomination requires pressure hoses, with more impact.</p> 45 means adding ventolation, all stainless-steel. Decomination requires pressure hoses, with more impact.</p>
43 <p>The kitchen does not play much into the lettings business, that is, not having a kitchen would 46 <p>The kitchen does not play much into the lettings business, that is, not having a kitchen would
44 not have much if any impact on the lettings. Anyone who wants lunch has a buffet (usually cold) 47 not have much if any impact on the lettings. Anyone who wants lunch has a buffet (usually cold)
45 catered in. The refreshment business is for teas and coffees.</p> 48 catered in. The refreshment business is for teas and coffees.</p>
46 <p>Cooking is crucial watershed: the "no kitchen" option would still allow dishwasher(s) and fridge(s).</p> 49 <p>Cooking is crucial watershed: the "no kitchen" option would still allow dishwasher(s) and fridge(s).</p>
47 <p>Alternatively, consider running a cafe continuously during the year. This would of course have 50 <p>Alternatively, consider running a cafe continuously during the year. This would of course have
48 an impact on the library.</p> 51 an impact on the library.</p>
49 <p>We are hopeful that the Victoria Terrace pavement will be re-opened through to GIVB by around Easter.</p> 52 <p>We are hopeful that the Victoria Terrace pavement will be re-opened
53 through to George the IVth Bridge by around Easter.</p>
50 <p>Opening up access to the creche directly from the library would be about 5KGBP, we could also 54 <p>Opening up access to the creche directly from the library would be about 5KGBP, we could also
51 look at breaking the internal wall down, adding built-in cupboards and a window.</p> 55 look at breaking the internal wall down, adding built-in cupboards and a window.</p>
52 <p>The toilets would be aiming for five lady's (plus basins), two cubicles and two urinals for the men's</p> 56 <p>The toilets refit is aiming for five lady's cubicles (plus basins), two cubicles and two urinals for the men's</p>
53 <p>Basic fabric and roof are in good state. The windows are pending. The hall is in good state, 57 <p>Basic fabric and roof are in good state. The windows are pending. The hall is in good state,
54 and proving attractive to lettings.</p> 58 and proving attractive to lettings.</p>
55 <p>The meetingroom itself has access issues wrt catering, and we have been trying to get most 59 <p>The meetingroom itself has access issues wrt catering, and we have been trying to get most
56 catering done on the 1st floor -- not all groups like this. There is no water or drainage.</p> 60 catering done on the 1st floor -- not all groups like this. There is no water
61 or drainage on that side of the building.</p>
62 <p>The windows project: it should be possible to get double-glazed vertically-hinged windows in the
63 Meeting Room and Hall, which
64 would mean we could get rid of the secondary windows and have proper ventolation. We're hoping to have
65 this redesign done soon so that if we must do </p>
57 <p>We could service/manage more letting with existing staffing levels if we had more rooms.</p> 66 <p>We could service/manage more letting with existing staffing levels if we had more rooms.</p>
58 <p>Heating bill for the whole building was about 8KGBP last year, some heaters lack local 67 <p>Heating bill for the whole building was about 8KGBP last year, some heaters lack local
59 thermostats. Solar or roof-based heat exchanger might be possible. No costings are available for this.</p> 68 thermostats. Solar or roof-based heat exchanger might be possible. No costings are available for this.</p>
60 <p>Fire regulations are now becoming an issue: strictly speaking the maximum occupancy of rooms 69 <p>Fire regulations are now becoming an issue: strictly speaking the maximum occupancy of rooms
61 above a single staircase is 60. A safe refuge and lift sealing are also in the offing.</p> 70 above a single staircase is 60. A safe refuge for wheelchair uses and lift sealing are also in the offing.</p>
62 <p>The overall regulatory situation means anytime we do anything, we now have to do it to the top 71 <p>The overall regulatory situation means anytime we do anything, we now have to do it to the top
63 standard demanded by fire, safety, health etc. regulations. We are sometimes put in a difficult 72 standard demanded by fire, safety, health etc. regulations. We are sometimes put in a difficult
64 position by this, for example, with respect to young Quaker residential groups, to whom strictly 73 position by this, for example, with respect to young Quaker residential groups, to whom strictly
65 speaking we should be saying "no" to. If we break the rules, and an accident happens, we will be in 74 speaking we should be saying "no". If we break the rules, and an accident happens, we will be in
66 serious trouble.</p> 75 serious trouble.</p>
67 <p>Staffing: Tom does 3 days a week, one of which is maintenance, and he covers for Friday 76 <p>Staffing: Tom does 3 days a week, one of which is maintenance, and he
68 (Managers' day off) and holidays. There are a further 8 0-hours contract staff who fill the rest. We 77 covers for Friday (Managers' day off) and holidays. There are a further eight
69 do lose money if we open the building for one group who are only using the Bow Room, for which the 78 0-hours contract staff who fill the rest on an <emph>ad-hoc</emph> basis. We
70 charity rate is 10GBP/hour.</p> 79 do lose money if we open the building for just one group who are only using the
71 <p>The recession may be having an impact, with things quite quiet since Christmas, except for some 80 Bow Room, for which the charity rate is 10GBP/hour.</p>
72 weeks when we are over-subscribed. Wednesday is the busiest day of the week, somewhat hampered by 81 <p>The recession may be having an impact, with things quite quiet since
73 midweek meeting.</p> 82 Christmas, except for some weeks when we are over-subscribed. Wednesday is the
74 <p>We can't compete with the big hotels and conference centres, and we don't try. Our primary 83 busiest day of the week, somewhat hampered by midweek Meeting.</p>
75 lettors come from the voluntary sector. Although they have been hit by the recession, and the 84 <p>We can't compete with the big hotels and conference centres, and we don't
76 shrinkage of Lottery funding consequent on the Olympics, we are looking at some hopeful prospects as well.</p> 85 try. Our primary lettors come from the voluntary sector. Although they have
86 been hit by the recession, and the shrinkage of Lottery funding consequent on
87 the Olympics, we are looking at some hopeful prospects as well.</p>
77 <p>We do have some groups with whom we have long-standing regular bookings, although not in the form 88 <p>We do have some groups with whom we have long-standing regular bookings, although not in the form
78 of say an annual contracts -- there are weekly discounts.</p> 89 of say an annual contracts -- there are weekly discounts.</p>
79 <p>6VT have enquired about letting the Bow Room on a long-term basis.</p> 90 <p>6VT have enquired about letting the Bow Room on a long-term basis.</p>
80 <p>We're not in a position (as say Dundee is) to do commercial lettings of a part of the building.</p> 91 <p>We're not in a position (as say Dundee is) to do commercial lettings of a part of the building.</p>
81 <p>Possible comparators: The Methodist Church in Nicholson Square; St. Mary's RC Cathedral</p> 92 <p>Possible comparators: The Methodist Church in Nicholson Square; St. Mary's RC Cathedral</p>
82 <p>We are now considered a "Quaker Centre". Manchester, Liverpool, York, Sheffield, Manchester, Swarthmore, Woodbrooke, Oxford (but they don't come) are 93 <p>We are now considered a "Quaker Centre". Manchester, Liverpool, York,
94 Sheffield, Manchester, Swarthmore, Woodbrooke, Oxford (but they don't come to
95 the meetings convened to discuss common issues) are
83 others. We are the only one in Scotland. Glasgow and Dundee do some lettings, but without the overall 96 others. We are the only one in Scotland. Glasgow and Dundee do some lettings, but without the overall
84 approach of a Centre.</p> 97 approach of a Centre.</p>
85 <p>There are still ways we could be making more of the building, more signage, more window displays. 98 <p>There are still ways we could be making more of the building, more signage, more window displays.
86 We don't have a permanent place for worship, which is unfortunate. Not enough use is being made of the 99 We don't have a permanent place for worship, which is unfortunate. Not enough use is being made of the
87 Meeting House <emph>by and for Quakers</emph>.</p> 100 Meeting House <emph>by and for Quakers</emph>.</p>
88 <p>The windows project: it should be possible to get double-glazed vertically-hinged windows in the
89 Meeting Room and Hall, which
90 would mean we could get rid of the secondary windows and have proper ventolation. We're hoping to have
91 this redesign done soon so that if we must do </p>
92 <p>Trading Company to run the business: Friends House have done that, the Priory Rooms (Poole 101 <p>Trading Company to run the business: Friends House have done that, the Priory Rooms (Poole
93 Street, Birmingham) have done this. Anthony would not like to go that way: it's now just a business.</p> 102 Street, Birmingham) have done this. Anthony would not like to go that way:
94 <p>Dundee Property Trust own the tenement in which the Dundee Meeting House, and the property agent 103 there is real tension in Poole Street, for instance, between the needs of the
104 AM and the business.</p>
105 <p>Dundee Property Trust own the tenement with the Dundee Meeting House, and the property agent
95 on the ground floor. Laurie Naumann has just become a trustee.</p> 106 on the ground floor. Laurie Naumann has just become a trustee.</p>
96 <p>Deciding what the right model is depends on what footprint we want, whether we want a presence. 107 <p>Deciding what the right funding/ownership/management model is depends on
108 what footprint we want, whether we want a presence or just a venue for Meeting
109 for Worship.
97 Setting up a trading company when we're running at a deficit seems like a non-starter.</p> 110 Setting up a trading company when we're running at a deficit seems like a non-starter.</p>
98 <p>Why aren't we running more Quaker study groups here? Why aren't more of our members doing more of 111 <p>Why aren't we running more Quaker study groups here? Why aren't more of our members doing more of
99 their Quaker-related business here? Our regular bookings do stop us being adventurous: we could have 112 their Quaker-related business here? Our regular bookings do stop us being adventurous: we could have
100 had the whole Middle-Eastern festival here, if we hadn't had the load of our ongoing bookings. We 113 had the whole Middle-Eastern festival here, if we hadn't had the load of our ongoing bookings. We
101 could change the way we do bookings, shift from regular slots to blocks.</p> 114 could change the way we do bookings, shift from regular slots to blocks.</p>
102 <p>Anthony was dismayed at the questionnaire which was headed for lettings, at a time when the
103 client base is delicate, indeed frightened that it might scare people off. None of the questionnaires
104 included anything about who the group is and what our remit is, or included the question of vision.
105 Eileen mentioned that the goal was to find out more about what made people come back, or not. There
106 already is a satisfaction evaluation for letting clients.</p>
107 <p>Brian suggested that the timing might be better once we have a better sense of what path we are
108 going down.</p>
109 <p>Anthony thought that asking people about alternative visions is the best way to get people's input.</p>
110 <p>Anthony recommended only having <emph>one</emph> questionnaire, so that the results are
111 comparable. Alison agreed that many of the questions should be the same, but the some questions were
112 only appropriate for some groups.</p>
113 </div> 115 </div>
114 <div> 116 <div>
115 <title>Input from the Convenor of Fabric and Maintenance 117 <title>Input from the Convenor of Fabric and Maintenance
116 C'ttee</title> 118 C'ttee</title>
117 <p>Ken is a trustee as well. Trustees have decided that no major spending commitments can be made 119 <p>Ken is a Trustee as well. Trustees have decided that no major spending commitments can be made
118 (except for urgent matters) until this Working Group has reported and AM has come to some conclusions. 120 (except for urgent matters) until this Working Group has reported and AM has come to some conclusions.
119 This puts real pressure on getting recommendations and decisions out of this review exercise as quickly 121 This puts real pressure on getting recommendations and decisions out of this review exercise as quickly
120 as possible.</p> 122 as possible.</p>
121 <p>Trustees have passed two things as matters of priority to F&amp;M: ongoing roof access above the flat (e.g. wrt 123 <p>Trustees have passed two things as matters of priority to F&amp;M:</p>
122 gutters) and priorities arising from the quinquennial review, which had to be done very soon, for 124 <list>
123 example some of the West windows.</p> 125 <item> ongoing roof access above the flat (e.g. wrt
124 <p>At a Quaker Centres meeting last week we heard many similar stories to what Anthony said above</p> 126 gutters);</item>
125 <p>The possibility of establishing some official GM use of building was explored in 1995. The 127 <item>priorities arising from the quinquennial review, i.e. things which had to be done very soon, for
128 example some of the West windows.</item>
129 </list>
130 <p>At a Quaker Centres meeting last week we heard many similar stories to what Anthony said above.</p>
131 <p>The possibility of establishing some official Scotland GM use of building was explored in 1995. The
126 operation of Quaker Link Scotland from 7VT also happened around then. The appointment of an admin. 132 operation of Quaker Link Scotland from 7VT also happened around then. The appointment of an admin.
127 assistant to GM was at first thought of as feeding into this, but partly because of the IVS lease on 133 assistant to GM was at first thought of as feeding into this, but partly because of the IVS lease on
128 the Bow Room, and partly because of opposition from elsewhere in GM, nothing came of it.</p> 134 the Bow Room, and partly because of opposition from elsewhere in GM, nothing came of it.</p>
129 <p>There is a danger of getting bogged down in costs, while losing sight of the benefits of the place.</p> 135 <p>There is a danger of getting bogged down in costs, while losing sight of the benefits of the place.</p>
130 <p>We have been running on low reserves since, roughly, the establishment of the Kelso Meeting 136 <p>We have been running on low reserves since, roughly, the establishment of the Kelso Meeting
131 House. We can't look at the Meeting House in isolation.</p> 137 House. We can't look at the Meeting House in isolation.</p>
132 <p>Other Quaker Centres have emphasised the need to have a clear vision in service of which the 138 <p>Other Quaker Centres have emphasised the need to have a clear vision in service of which the
133 financial plans are framed.</p> 139 financial plans are framed.</p>
134 </div> 140 </div>
135 <div> 141 <div>
136 <title>Status of survey preparation</title> 142 <title>Questionnaires</title>
137 <list type="1defn"> 143 <p>Anthony was dismayed at the questionnaire which was headed for lettings, at a time when the
138 <item term="Quaker groups (Madeleine)"></item> 144 client base is delicate, indeed frightened that it might scare people off. None of the questionnaires
139 <item term="Non-Quaker groups (Eileen)"></item> 145 included anything about who the group is and what our remit is, or included the question of vision.
140 <item term="Central Edinburgh members (Phil)"></item> 146 Eileen mentioned that the goal was to find out more about what made people come
141 <item term="Other LMs (Alison)"></item> 147 back, or not. Anthony pointed out that there
142 <item term="AM finance types (Laurie)"></item> 148 already is a satisfaction evaluation for letting clients.</p>
143 <item term="7VT staff (Brian)"></item> 149 <p>Brian suggested that the timing might be better once we have a better sense of what path we are
144 </list> 150 going down.</p>
151 <p>Anthony thought that asking about alternative visions is the best way to get people's input.</p>
152 <p>Anthony recommended only having <emph>one</emph> questionnaire, so that the results are
153 comparable. Alison agreed that many of the questions should be the same, but the some questions were
154 only appropriate for some groups.</p>
145 </div> 155 </div>
146 <div> 156 <div>
147 <title></title> 157 <title>Future topics</title>
148 <p>Need a tour of the building, next time (when Rufus is here).</p> 158 <p>Need a tour of the building, next time (when Rufus is here).</p>
159 <p>Developing alternative visions</p>
149 </div> 160 </div>
150 <div> 161 <div>
151 <title>Next Meeting</title> 162 <title>Next Meeting</title>
152 <p>Our next meeting will be at </p> 163 <p>Our next meeting will be on Sunday 22 February, 7:30 p.m. at 7 Victoria
164 Terrace. We have tentatively set Sunday 8 March, same time and venue, for the
165 meeting after that.</p>
153 </div> 166 </div>
154 </body> 167 </body>
155 </doc> 168 </doc>