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Through Week 1
author Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk>
date Wed, 16 Jun 2021 21:23:53 +0100
parents
children 1bc6cf72ea70
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206
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Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk>
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1 Tim Peat Ashworth: Paul as focussed on the transformation of all
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2 creation, originating in the transformation of ourselves. Finding
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3 that throughout the NT.
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4
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5 "The William": There's a big gap in the New Testament narratives: the
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6 Romans, the resistance, Masada (73 CE), etc. Why?
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7
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8 Stuart M: Tension between the quiet, inward worship practice and the
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9 noisy, outward, charismatic behaviour it underpinned.
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10
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11 The struggle to survive post-Restoration plus the failure of the
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12 expectation of external transformation put the previous public
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13 aspect of Quakerism had to be reined in.
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14
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15 Barclay gives up on radical equality: God's plan allows for
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16 different wealth for different people.
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17
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18 Branston-Hicks metaphor! Is there still a real labour and birth
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19 still to come?
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20
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21 TPA: But note that in early Christianity the challenge of organisation
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22 vs. inspiration leads to an emergence of hierarchy, but that never
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23 happened among Friends...
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24
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25 Ben Dandelion: Fox appealing to "30 minutes of silence" in Revelation,
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26 and the inward communion in Revelation 3:20 (?: "Here I am! I stand at
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27 the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I
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28 will come in and eat with that person, and they with me.").
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29
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30 Evangelical framing of their situation in the 18th century falls in
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31 line with the "sometime in the distance" for the expectation of the
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32 2nd Coming
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33
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34 How can we reframe the idea of Heaven on Earth, reinvent the
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35 tradition, to keep the possibility of transformation alive.
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36
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37 How do we make sense of what is essentially a 2nd coming liturgy?
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38
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39 If we're waiting for humanity to respond to the opportunity, what
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40 will it take for that to happen? [TPA: When we realise there is no
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41 alternative]
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42
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43 TPA: What accounts then for the "20% of London and Bristol were
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44 caught up by Quakerism" in the 1650s? BPD: [The context: finding
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45 certainity and hope in a catastrophic situation]
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46
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47 The contrast of "anyone can be saved" with much of what the other
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48 churches were saying.
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49
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50 ----------TPA video 1----------
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51
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52 Luke: "The Spirit of the Lord is upon me" are Jesus's first public
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53 words. Thereafter we don't hear much about the Spirit, but the
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54 unspoken sub-text is, wrt Jesus himself: "Look at Jesus: This is what
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55 the Spirit-led life looks like". The Spirit gives a foretaste of what
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56 is to come... Paul describes the Apostles as 'Ambassadors of life in
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57 the Spirit'. Manifesting life in the Spirit as it was in Jesus,
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58 because they saw it in him. [Note that this makes Paul's claim to
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59 _be_ and Apostle a bit tenuous]
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60
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61 Early Christian communities: spiritual families ('brother' and 'sister')
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62 Boundaries crossed/erased -- manifestations of the Spirit -- but a
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63 diversity of gifts. Their community life is manifesting what the
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64 Spirit is bringing and will bring.
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65
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66 Revelation: taking away a veil, now, and coming. Normal way of seeing
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67 boundaries between e.g. classes is falling away, seeing things in new
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68 ways. Not a new set of teachings, but a new kind of perception [and
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69 of living?]
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70
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71 Crunch time: how much can you rely on this? First conflict over the
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72 dietary laws. The Law vs. the new vision. Matthew keeps a strong
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73 place for the Law, Jesus as a teacher in the Jewish tradition
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74 (radical, but in the same tradition).
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75
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76 Humanity is to be transformed, and continue, in the Spirit, (and so
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77 the whole of Creation is transformed).
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78
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79 Luke has what Eden Grace described: "Creation waits with eager/anxious expectation"
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80 A sense of bringing to birth, with the attendant hint of anxiety.
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81 And we have the Spirit as midwife to the change: support with firmness
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82
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83 Humanity refashioned not just in, but as, the image ('ikon') of God
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84
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85 And this has to begin with a dying of the old form of life.
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86 "_I_ live no longer, but Christ lives in me" [Paul, somewhere]
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87
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88 TPA (responding to SM): There's a _lot_ about newness in the NT, but
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89 it's almost all about people coming into a new understanding of what
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90 it is to be human, and not much about seeing the whole of creation in
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91 a new way, as early Friends would.
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92
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93 PBD paraphrasing TPA (responding to BPD): Jesus's resurrection is the
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94 _beginning_ of the fulfillment of the prophesy of universal
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95 resurrection: "a justification that something major has begun, if if
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96 it hasn't been completed".
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97
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98 TPA (responding so SM 42:10): Was it a time of constant upheaval,
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99 heavy oppresive behavious from the occupying Roman forces, etc.? A
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100 lot of scholarly debate pro and con on this. Ed Saunders (sp?) yes
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101 life was tough, harvests failed, but Roman rule was by-and-large _not_
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102 obtrusive, and largely implemented through local intermediaries.
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103
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104 BPD: Are the Gospels trying, as they tell it, to reconfigure what
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105 happened leading up to and in Jesus's crucifixion to fit with new
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106 sense of delay [in the Kingdom] [that they were experiencing 20/30
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107 years later]?
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108
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109 The coming of the Spirit to the Gentiles, which happened very quickly,
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110 was "the knock-down argument" that the coming resurrection was for
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111 _all_ people, not just the (people formerly known as the) Chosen of
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112 God.
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113
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114 ==============Forum discussions==========
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115 I need to say something in this thread:
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116 https://moodle.woodbrooke.org.uk/mod/forum/discuss.php?d=14517
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117 about (FK's reading of) Aquinas's approach to free will and Grace:
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118 not just us, not just God, but (a mystical union of) both...
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119
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120 ---------TPA Video 2-----------
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121